Experience loss

[ziggman]

exp loss,
has this been revised? i know we had the big bag disscusstion where we mentioned exp loss. but is there an equation yet? i think 5% of you current level is the ammout you lose. so if u managed to die 20 times you delevel. no capping.

i was just thinking, could we have some type of homing system or -stuck system like on xenimus, but can be used after you die? like you can type -home and log off for 2-3 hours at witch point your dead body is moved to your spawn town. to avoid exp loss. sucks when no one you know is on and ur dead somwhere....

[Karl G.]

I agree that dying somewhere you have no idea where you are sucks pretty bad. I would be in support of a -home command.

[Ratiotile]

So we have gone from losing 50% of exp(Vitriol) to losing only 5%? Since the goal of this game is to be somewhat harsh on dying, I think that's too extreme a step backwards. With LSA's, in Xenimus, hardly anyone ever loses EXP. You only lose EXP if you die without an LSA. I've lost EXP a grand total of once after playing on and off for a few years.

5% current level exp is like a drop in the bucket. The exp bar will go down barely a millimeter. Players should lose minimum 20% current level's exp for dying without LSA, and maybe even 1% for dying with an LSA. I see people die all the time in Xenimus and not lose anything. I support EXP loss over gear loss because loss of EXP is a time setback, while loss of gear means you can't hunt in a location suitable for your level anymore.

[ziggman]

50% is alot! is that 50% total exp or 50% level exp? you could delevel Several levels if you die once if it was total exp lost.
in a game with NO bags lsa wouldnt be used often... if they were used at all. you have 100% chance to drop 1 item, wearing lsa's would only make you drop 2 items, if you died again.

it would be smarter over all to not wear an lsa. you would lose less if you just died.

[Karl G.]

hmm well I think what we have here is a "balancing factor". You choose whether or not losing EXP by not wearing an LSA or losing twice as much gear by wearing one is worse... we just have to adjust the amount of EXP you lose so it is in fact balanced. The goal here would be to have half of the players with LSAS, half without, and a very small fraction with something else (redo for example). This would also make max ammys worth a LOT more because you wouldn't die before you get a second life.

Karl

[Ratiotile]

No, I think people will still wear LSA's. They did so back in old Xen when only high levels had bags. You can't lose more gear unless you get back up. That makes teamwork important because you can call for a linkmate to come save you.

A more important question is the deleveling question. The decision on what a character loses when deleveling is essential for designing the code. I reccommend that more people discuss deleveling in the other thread.

[Vitriol]

My original idea was your level% of current XP.
Rather I think it should be 10% of your total XP, with a cap. The cap should be dependent on your level.

[ziggman]

My original idea was your level% of current XP.
Rather I think it should be 10% of your total XP, with a cap. The cap should be dependent on your level.

10% of level exp agreed.

200k cap?

[Ratiotile]

Is the cap a limit on total EXP loss permitted? or on amount of EXP that can be lost at once?

10% of a level is not very much.

[ziggman]

i think it should be a Maximum of 200k for each time. and 10% can endup to be alot. i really doubt alot of people would eveb wear an lsa. it wouldnt make sense, you have a much higher chance to drop 2 items...

i agree 10% of level exp is acceptable.

[Ratiotile]

Well I re-read Vitriol's post, and he said 10% of total exp. My suggestion is instead of taking total EXP and the capping it, to just take the exp from the current level's requirement. It has the same effect, and is easier to calculate. Unless of course, you forsake rational series and decide to use an EXP scaling system as absurd as EJ's.

To achieve the same effect as Vitriol's 10% total exp, the loss would need to be around 20% level EXP, maybe more. Somewhere around 10-20% is fine.

[JSunJShineR]

yea screw lsa's if bags arent in game. why would i risk loosing more gear? why not just keep bags in game with lsa's and earn the money you need for gear. you what 99% of people do when they loose something they worked extremely hard for in a game? QUIT... if i earn enough money for a great item and i put it on and then some high lvl comes and kills and takes it, This is my reaction *#### this game.* *logs off, control panel, add or remove program, delete PV...* why bother playing and wasting your time on it if you know eventually u'll loose it. its like working for a company for 10 yrs and being extremely loyal and hard working and never getting a raise and infact, rather, u get fired... Its a definate YES people will quit if there is no security system for their gear... only the few harcore gamers with no life will play. what about profit? what about what the consumers want? ever hear of money? you need this inorder to pay for the servers for the game can't do that if everyone quits cuz of you to lazy to go make gold so u pk some newb for it...

infact i remember making a newbie and being at skellies lvling for like 2 hrs then some mage comes along 1 shot... dead. he charms a skelli without anyone realising and puts it near body. I get up thiunking its safe but infact there is a lvl 100 skelly getting ready to rape me.. i loose exp/more gear and say f- this.

[JSunJShineR]

Yea screw lsa's if bags arent in game. Why would I risk loosing more gear? Why not just keep bags in game with lsa's and earn the money you need for gear. You know what 99% of people do when they loose something they worked extremely hard for in a game? QUIT... If I earn enough money for a great item and I put it on, then some high level comes and kills me, takes the item and runs, this is my reaction: *#### this game.* *logs off, control panel, add or remove program, delete PV...* Why bother playing and wasting your time on it if you know eventually you'll loose it. It is like working for a company for 10 years and being extremely loyal, hard working and never getting a raise and, infact, you get fired... Its a definate YES people will quit if there is no security system for their gear... Only the few harcore gamers with no life will play. What about profit? What about what the consumers want? Ever hear of money? You need this inorder to pay for the servers for the game. You can't do that if everyone quits because of someone to lazy to go make gold so they kill some low level for it...

Infact I remember making a newbie and being at skelletons lvling for 2 ours or so, then some mage comes along one shot... dead. He charms a skelleton without anyone realising and puts it near body. I get up thinking its safe but, infact there is a lvl 100 skelly getting ready to rape me.. I loose exp/more gear and say f- this.

[Ratiotile]

I agree that getting PK'ed does infact suck, but the trick to using LSA's is not to get up. Even when it looks safe there may be an invisible PK'er waiting. I'd suggest either a change in the invis system or having dead people be able to see everything, as if they are given super-nightvision. This way they would be able to tell if it was safe or not. Someone suggested a command to transport your dead body back to town. That would also work.

Another key part of surviving PK's was building a link of other people, typically joining some high-levels. When you get PK'ed you can call on them for help. In this way LSA's increase player interaction. Player responsibility is another issue.

[JSunJShineR]

sadly an issue that cannot be fixed=P

[ziggman]

i got it!

wearing an lsa would only cause you to lose 5% of current level exp. and upon death you get the option of typing -home or f12.

-home = return you to your home town
f12 = stand and fight again

dying without an lsa would cause 25% of current level loss.

[Karl G.]

zigg -- that sounds perfect.

[a_link_to_the_past]

Ok since we are talking about LSAs here I thought I might throw this point in. After you press f12 and get up. you only have a small fraction of your total hp once you get up. That small fraction of health that you come back to makes it super easy to get killed by a roaming monster that you didn't see off screen, especially since when you die you lose all your charges. I personally think that health should return to full once you press f12.

[Nenitus]

I think both those ideas are good.
That provides incentive for wearing LSA.
Would it be no exp loss if you got up where you were at?
And only loss if you chose town?
or would we have exp loss (perhaps reduced amount) for ANY death, as a penalty for letting yourself die?
(and then an extra % if no lsa, spawn at town)

[Vitriol]

Karl can easily make it so if you have dropped an item from dying on an lsa then you wont drop another item if you die within 30 seconds of getting up.
XP loss needs to be harsh guys, otherwise players wont fear death.
10% of current xp with a cap.
levels 1-5 cap = 2k
Levels 6-10 cap = 20k
Levels 11-15 cap = 100k
Levels 16-20 cap = 250k
levels 20+ cap = 500k

[ziggman]

so inother words lsa's wont do jack sht for you? except allow you to lose 2 items? or lose exp twice?
possibly losing your best item and losing 10% exp with or with out an lsa is too much.

i fear the extreeme loss aspect to this game has already lost some players.

I think both those ideas are good.
That provides incentive for wearing LSA.
Would it be no exp loss if you got up where you were at?
And only loss if you chose town?
or would we have exp loss (perhaps reduced amount) for ANY death, as a penalty for letting yourself die?
(and then an extra % if no lsa, spawn at town)

5% if you chose town or to get up. your paying the 5% to allow the option of going home after death. if u got up and died again you would drop another item and lose and additional 25%, if you hadn't got another lsa on yet. so dying twice would be really crappy.

if your not wearing an lsa you would lose 25% of level experience and 'die' returning to your spawn town

[JSunJShineR]

lmao if what you say is true and lvling will be hard like the old days, im not willing to loose 500k at lvl 20 for dieing... fix your ideas on HARD and IMPROBABLE...

[a_link_to_the_past]

Woooo! Bring on the pain and suffering... but no one answered my question... pfft lol

[Rabit561]

Well how bout you just make it so you don't loose exp, just make is so after you die instead of looseing xp you gain dept makeing it so you only gain 50% of the XP you would and the other half going toward the dept you made because of dieing...

[Karl G.]

Hey! That's a very original idea, and I like it a lot. In the case of multiple deaths, I guess the "debt" would increase...but should the percentage? 50% sounds good because it makes the player still able to gain "real" experience, if at a slower rate. I know I HATED being so close to leveling and then dying...that sucked big time. If the percentage of exp -> "debt" doesn't increase with each death, however, repeated deaths are without consequence.