Straying to far from xen...

[9sam1]

Karl, your doing alot of work and thats great. But i personally cant help but feel you've strayed to far from xen with Evidyon. Wasn't the original idea to recreate old school xen, or to just recreate xen period? When i play Evidyon it doesn't feel like xenimus to me really, and some of these new additions your talking about i dont like at all. (zooming and rotating screen? No thanks...)

Personally i wish you would go back to trying to make this a Xenimus Recreation, as opposed to a TOTALLY different game, with a slight link to xenimus. I know some others agree, lets have a poll and see.

[Cagen]

The point of Evidyon was never to be a clone of Xenimus. It was always going to be a completely new game but it would have the feel of Xenimus, for example the fast paced action and pvp'ing, the exploration, cumulative stats, etc.

Though I do slightly agree on the camera, it detracts from the feel of Xenimus. However it is interesting.

[Karl G.]

When i play Evidyon it doesn't feel like xenimus to me really

Yes, I know. I am making an effort to make it "feel" like Xenimus, and I believe a lot of that has to do with (1) the spells that are available and (2) the graphics style. I am working on making it feel more like Xenimus; I know exactly what you mean--however, my goal is to make a game that is as close as I can get to same feel but is not a clone. Think about it--a clone would be boring. You know all the secrets in Xenimus. You know the best character builds. You know the available spells, skills, and items and where everything is in the world. That's what I'm going to change, and I want to add improved graphics and make it easier to become immersed in the game.

I realize that this project has strayed from that, but it has because my main goal is to make this game *work* first. The biggest problem is what IS the style of Xenimus? I can tell that it's different, but I can't figure out what specifically to change.

After playing with the new camera, I think it might be best to keep it fixed, however.

[Sankt Pauli]

I don't really see this as a problem. To be honest i prefer the overall current 'feel' of evidyon over xenimus.
And i'm not sure what defines the 'xenimus feel' for you. The only thing you mentioned is the camera, i have a hard time seeing that as a problem because afaik they're supposed to be additional perspectives which you're not forced to use (hunting might be difficult with it anyways).

To me, xenimus biggest points that defined the 'feel' for me allways were:
- Fastpaced Gameplay ("Action MMORPG" - The old arcade "Gauntlet" allways comes to my mind)
- Anarchic rulesystem with basically no restrictions
- No instancing
- A slight humorous, self-ironic touch (which unfortunately seems not intended in xenimus though lolz)
- You can get most things done playing alone

I pretty much found all that in evidyon aswell. With combos, guaranteed item-dropping and shrubberys i also see improvements in the different fields. But ofcourse, that's just my personal opinion, after all this is art so personal taste comes into play. :p

Edit: Concerning the camera, how about to just add one or two good perspectives to the "v" key? For example the rotating one or a close-up one/free perspective to admire the glitzy gear you're wearing?

[9sam1]

The point of Evidyon was never to be a clone of Xenimus.

This entire project began, as a direct clone of old school xenimus.

What your doing right now, to me, seems like just making a new game using a xenimus style engine. If i wanted that tbh id just wait for diablo III or something.

it's like, why would I choose to drink RC cola when ive already got tons of Pepsi already. (awesome analogy)

[Sankt Pauli]

A direct clone of 'old school' xenimus (which you somehow didn't bother to define further) would majorly suck imo.
I also thought everyone agreed on having a new game that uses the xenimus 'feel', to which extent is still a adjustable thing in an alpha.

And i'm not sure if it helps your case when you make a thread on xentales asking to vote for 'yes' on here while most people on there don't even know how evidyon 'feels'.

Sidenote: polls on this forum aren't very reliable anyways since every new-ip-guest can submit a vote.

[9sam1]

I asked them, if you want a xenimus clone, vote yes.

Cant the xenimus community have a say in Evidyon? You except there donations with open arms but denounce their opinions?

Im sure MOST of them have played evidyon or seen the videos also...

[Sankt Pauli]

That actually was my point. You think the evidyon 'feel' is not like it should be so you ask people who never experienced that very 'feel' to give their opinion (but you didn't see me locking the thread so i obviously am fine with it, i just don't see much of a benefit).
And nobody donates anything to me (which sucks badly :/), i also don't believe karl is just in it for the donation as you seem to suggest it here (Note: i have nothing to do with the development of evidyon, i'm just an alpha tester just like you who stated his opinion.)

[Joe M.]

Edit: rephrasing

[Cagen]

The point of Evidyon was never to be a clone of Xenimus.

This entire project began, as a direct clone of old school xenimus.

What your doing right now, to me, seems like just making a new game using a xenimus style engine. If i wanted that tbh id just wait for diablo III or something.

it's like, why would I choose to drink RC cola when ive already got tons of Pepsi already. (awesome analogy)

Though I may be wrong I am pretty sure you are confusing Project Volucris with the Xen Private Server. PV was never going to be a straight clone, it was always going to evolve into its own game.

[Joe M.]

9sam1:

You might read what Karl has to say on this thread:

Yes, I know. I am making an effort to make it "feel" like Xenimus, and I believe a lot of that has to do with (1) the spells that are available and (2) the graphics style. I am working on making it feel more like Xenimus; I know exactly what you mean--however, my goal is to make a game that is as close as I can get to same feel but is not a clone ...

I realize that this project has strayed from that, but it has because my main goal is to make this game *work* first. The biggest problem is what IS the style of Xenimus? I can tell that it's different, but I can't figure out what specifically to change.

So Karl recognizes the problem about which you are complaining. So why don't you identify specific elements that you think detract from the feel of the game and suggest improvements, instead of indulging in the "it's all wrong" broadside of this post? That way we can make the game better.

[Joe M.]

Oh, and let me reassure you: the goal of PV/Evidyon was never to clone Xenimus. The idea was (and still is) to use old-school Xen as a starting-point.

(Though I could be wrong on the "never," this was the very first conversation I had with Karl when he mentioned PV to me. That was a long time ago: check the "joined" dates on my name and on Karl's--I beat him to his own forum!)

[9sam1]

It was my understanding that, pv would

remake the xenimus models, textures, sounds etc. And make the game just like Xenimus with slight changes to avoid legal problems. (renaming omni to something else, but having it look like omni)

Honestly the problem comes mostly in the look i suppose, Your brain responds a certain way to the look of xenimus, if you remember my Xenimus 2d project, the engine was nothing even slightly close to xenimus, but i used alot of things to make some of it look like xenimus, and people played. So i've drawn from that and other things, that the look is what REALLY makes it feel like xenimus.

[Karl G.]

Oh, and let me reassure you: the goal of PV/Evidyon was never to clone Xenimus. The idea was (and still is) to use old-school Xen as a starting-point.

(Though I could be wrong on the "never," this was the very first conversation I had with Karl when he mentioned PV to me. That was a long time ago: check the "joined" dates on my name and on Karl's--I beat him to his own forum!)

Exactly.


I can modify the look of Evidyon easily, but it just hadn't occurred to me that doing so would be that meaningful. The thing is, I've coded almost every single day for the past TWO YEARS on this game, so I'm pretty excited to have something that actually *works*. And I do recall saying that alpha would be open to players who would help me find bugs in the code and provide helpful suggestions without passing judgment because the game is not (in any way, shape or form) finished!

That said, if you or anyone else would like to suggest some specific changes please let me know.

[9sam1]

I just wanted to get my opinion out before it was to late, since i've heard others say the same thing, yet no post has been made, figured id be the one to say it.

And yea, hadn't really occurred to me much before that, simply making it LOOK like xenimus, is a lot of what makes it feel like xenimus.

[Karl G.]

I just wanted to get my opinion out before it was to late, since i've heard others say the same thing, yet no post has been made, figured id be the one to say it.

And yea, hadn't really occurred to me much before that, simply making it LOOK like xenimus, is a lot of what makes it feel like xenimus.

That I can do. It's not a big deal to change the textures around, so I'll see what I can do and post some pics.

[Serenity]

We can make it look like Xen but sexier.

[Sankt Pauli]

Finally you managed to get to the cake hehe.
I'd still prefer new models and textures over "slightly modified" xen-originals though, same goes for other visuals.
Just seems too boring to me to end up with a game that looks like a polished "2.0" version of the same stuff we allready seen for years. Half of the fun is learning and (especially) seeing something fresh.

I guess that's the "taste" part though, because to me the xenimus 'feel' derives of the gameplay/rulesystem elements and not so much from the visual part.

[9sam1]

On a slightly related note. Karl do you store the textures and stuff in the Evidyon exe or something?

[Karl G.]

OH MY GOD the difference is INCREDIBLE!!! It's like I'm playing a different game...

[9sam1]

Sarcasm?

Anyway yes, darker grass and dirt amongst many other things would be an improvement.

[Sankt Pauli]

I think he was talking about the aurelian models and charges. :p
Are you wearing a staff with shield in the first pic karl? o0

[9sam1]

Karls a barb , that staff is HUGE

[Karl G.]

Haha no I wasn't being sarcastic...it really does look a lot better. You'll see in the next update. I was just so surprised that such a simple change would make a big difference!

And yeah, that staff is big lol

[Joe M.]

Those colours make a huge difference. Much more lush, much more exciting.

This does lead to the question of lighting, though. That would probably also make a big difference, but the trick would be to find the proper balance between good-looking lighting and waaaay too much effort.