equation for leveling/exp per kill ect

[ziggman]

has this been figured out?..
looking at parabolas and stuff, makes me remember how much i hated advanced algebra. loved Geometry tho go figure...

so is there a leveling equation or are the numbers going to be hard keyed into the system?

[Karl G.]

As of now, there are no numbers whatsoever. I think it's going to be difficult to come up with an equation that fits our requirements, anyway, so we might just want to type in each level's experience. After all, it's not that much info and this way we can get it exactly right. So now comes the question of designing this system! Want to put some of that (evil) advanced algebra to use?

[thadiusofx3]

ummm damnit i had an exp formula made, just dunno what i did with it

lemme look around computer

[Necromadon]

Exp = BaseExp * [.9 + (Intelligence/100)]

Simple enough, .9 because you start with 10 intel.

If you have 10 intel 10/100 is .1 + .9 = 1, you get the base exp since you have no extra intel.

45 intel on a 100 exp monster

Exp = 100 * [.9 + (45/100)] = 135

35% exp bonus with 45 intel.



This would be easy for users to caclulate their own experience bonus. Intel - 10 = % experience bonus. And I don't think it sounds too overpowered, or ineffective at all.

[Cowinator]

Y'know, that's actually a pretty simple yet genius idea. And it's not like it's overpowered, since the only reason you'd have higher int is because you'd have a higher level. And at higher levels, leveling takes that much longer, so all the help they can get the better, right?

[Karl G.]

i like this

[thadiusofx3]

just throwing around a formula

exp += 200(1.5^level) rounded to 2 less than the length of the number
(experience means experience needed to achieve the next level, for example at level 1, exp needed to level to 2 is 300, 2-3 is 750, etc)

1 300 300
2 750 750
3 1425 1400
4 2437.5 2400
5 3956.25 4000
6 6234.375 6200
7 9651.5625 9700
8 14777.34375 15000
9 22466.01563 22000
10 33999.02344 34000
11 51298.53516 51000
12 77247.80273 77000
13 116171.7041 120000
14 174557.5562 170000
15 262136.3342 260000
16 393504.5013 390000
17 590556.752 590000
18 886135.128 890000
19 1329502.692 1300000
20 1994554.038 2000000
21 2992131.057 3000000
22 4488496.586 4500000
23 6733044.878 6700000
24 10099867.32 10000000
25 15150100.98 15000000
26 22725451.46 23000000
27 34088477.2 34000000
28 51133015.8 51000000
29 76699823.69 77000000
30 115050035.5 120000000

[Karl G.]

Wow that's pretty steep...120 mil for level 30?

[thadiusofx3]

30 would be like godly though, and the rewards for leveling 20-30 would keep getting better

[ziggman]

perhaps we could set a level cap at 30 untill all the finer points of the game are worked out? and then increase the maximum level?

if we are going to have intell work as a experience bounus... then that souldnt be a casters main attribute. its really not fair, i didnt think it was fair in xenimus either. a wizzy who has 50+ intell gets a massive damage bouns and ALSO gets a really good experience bounus.... like i said i always thought that was bullsht.

if we are going to have experice bounus maybe have the 'regen' stat determine the bounus? for wizzy it would wisdom then? warlock wisdom, cleric intell, druid intell, all fighter class wisdom?

[thadiusofx3]

or maybe just have a new stat that only does exp
I'd say perception (knowledge(exp) gained by perceiving). The higher your perception, the more knowledge(exp) you gain.

[Ratiotile]

just throwing around a formula

exp += 200(1.5^level) rounded to 2 less than the length of the number
(experience means experience needed to achieve the next level, for example at level 1, exp needed to level to 2 is 300, 2-3 is 750, etc)

That formula results in a remarkably steep exp curve. It looks more like the total exp per level rather then exp required. Remember that the Xen exp required per level is initially steep, but then advances much slower, see http://www.xentales.com/wiki/index.php/Leveling.

I'd stay away from exponential formulas for calculating exp needed per level. If you want a steep curve, try using a power formula, exp += 300(level^2) for example.




The power approximation seems to fit better, however in the low levels, the exp progression is almost exactly exponential.


It appears that EJ changed formulas at level 17. In fact, it seems that he has changed it to a slower-growing exponential model, if we view the levels after 17 on a separate chart.

[Paz the Spaz]

Look, the whole intel bonus exp thing only started mattering after EJ mentioned it, and its only about 1-1.25 for every point of intel. There is no problem with wizards or other casters getting a bonus from it, they should. I'm pretty sure that steals (mp steal at least) should get the ax. Without that crap, casters become harder to level again (like it should be), and perhaps there are other ways to balance out fighter and caster leveling. If you remove these little things, such as exp bonus, there will be less and less strategy left and it become simply a game of who has more time to spend on powerleveling like xenimus is now.

I also think that a new stat perception wouldn't be such a fantastical idea. Mostly, it is unnecessary, and players don't need another stat to waste their stat points on (plus its not staying true to xenimus stats). In DnD, I think if you have too little intelligence, your character cant even talk right? If in PV a char doesn't have any int then of course there should be a negative repercussion. Notice how it's harder to teach a mentally challenged kid to read then a normal or above average kid. Exp gain should be the same way, you won't learn anything if you can't absorb the information/exp.

Another thing, I like how the main attributes for casters are working for xenimus atm. wizards and warlocks function their spells through the pure knowledge(int) of "arcane workings," while clerics and druids use spiritual magic, requiring wisdom instead of knowledge.

[thadiusofx3]

just throwing around a formula

exp += 200(1.5^level) rounded to 2 less than the length of the number
(experience means experience needed to achieve the next level, for example at level 1, exp needed to level to 2 is 300, 2-3 is 750, etc)

That formula results in a remarkably steep exp curve. It looks more like the total exp per level rather then exp required. Remember that the Xen exp required per level is initially steep, but then advances much slower, see http://www.xentales.com/wiki/index.php/Leveling.

I'd stay away from exponential formulas for calculating exp needed per level. If you want a steep curve, try using a power formula, exp += 300(level^2) for example.

This isn't xenimus though, and there won't be as many levels. And that is the formula for total exp needed, not exp required between levels. (1-2 = 300 xp, 2-3 = 750 total (450 MORE))
Like I said before level 30 will be like godly (think 65 in xenimus), and those higher exp amounts will be rewarded with better spells, items, quests, etc.
Remember though, nothing is set in stone, and things will have to be thoroughly tested and revised, but we have to have SOMETHING to put in there to tinker with, and I was just throwing an idea out.

[Karl G.]

The problem with having very few levels is that that alone won't solve the problem you're trying to solve. I agree that fewer levels could help promote a feeling of camaraderie between players (after all, the difference between levels 18 and 19 isn't that much, to the human mind) however, we have to deal with the fact that players are going to get BORED as hell trying to get that next great ability. If you say the difference between levels 29 and 30 will be like the Xenimus levels in the 60's, it will take months of hard leveling just to achieve it--perhaps more than a year if you don't level 24/7. I know if I had to wait that long, I would get really bored with my character, and the whole game, and probably go do something else.

The easiest way to solve this issue is to spread out the levels more--this was one of the design decisions for BTR; we were going to allow hundreds of character levels, and give small bonuses each level-up. But since that won't be the case here, I suggest the following:

Players have their *choice* of skills & spells to learn each level. They can pick a limited number from a list of new abilities for that level, or possibly upgrade the power/range/duration/speed of previous abilities. I suggest a points system, where a player gets a number of points to spend on abilities equal to their new level (level 3 = 3 points, level 4 = 4 points, etc). Spells and talents each cost a number of points to learn (skills are acquired through practice/spending skill points, which are separate from this system). By "purchasing" a skill or spell, the player gains access to it.

Now here's the kicker--throughout a level, gaining experience gives you more points. You can use the points, in addition to points gained by "unlearning" skills (for half their original point value) to change your skill or spell set during that level.

By carefully balancing the possible spells/skills and their point value, it will be impossible for a player to learn all of the best abilities for a single level, but it *will* be possible for them to change their skills around to make the character more interesting to play. Furthermore, we can make the game more interesting by allowing skills from previous levels to be learned for a higher point value on future levels.

Level - points this level(total points)

level 2 - 3(3)
level 3 - 5(8)
level 4 - 7(15)
level 5 - 9(24)
level 6 - 11(35)

For example, level 2 spells for Warlocks:
0 - Nightvision
1 - Magic Armor (I)
1 - Poison Dart
2 - Confuse
3 - Firebreath
3 - Summon Skeleton

level 3 spells:
1 - Heal Self (I)
(2) - Magic Armor (I)
3 - Acid Rain
(4) - Summon Skeleton <-- if they didn't buy it last level, they can buy it now (but it costs more!)
(4) - Firebreath <-- if they didn't buy it last level, they can buy it now (but it costs more!)
6 - Acid Bomb
7 - Teleport

level 4 spells:
2 - Heal Self (II)
3 - Strength (I)
4 - Speed (I)
4 - Magic Armor (II)
(7) - Acid Bomb
(9) - Teleport


etc...

[Necromadon]

Experience in Xenimus isn't done by a formula. 49-50 takes less exp than 48-49. Ej just did numbers manually.

30 levels is really, really stupid. There's no flexibility with your stats if you only have that many levels to work with. I like a level 70 level cap.

[Joe M.]

customization is a very good thing. I still think that more levels less power per is a good decision. Maybe not to an extreme, but it does help move development along, especially if the player is making his own decision about skills and abilities.

And Karl, is there a reason why you indicated that a skill picked up at a higher level would cost more? That doesn't make much sense to me.

[Karl G.]

Yes. This is because some skills are very good, and you get more points-per-level when you level up. If you were able to get all of the best skills/spells for a given level within three levels, every player would just get all of the skills at some point and the system would be just as boring as if it were the normal skill-at-a-certain-level-no-matter-what method. This is not a bad thing that the cost goes up, either, because those skills whose cost increase also naturally increase in power as you level up. Moonbeam, for example, gets stronger per level (And point of intelligence) so picking it up later for a higher cost may still be worth it to a player--but then again, they might rather spend their points on a brand new ability at their current level. Skills that don't increase in power--such as transform into cloud ("gassing")--will have a constant cost.

Karl

[speed3b]

I really like the idea Karl has about the skill points. Would cost most skill points later if you chose to increase a skill from a previous level.

I was thinking of taking a page from the book for Call of Duty 4 and Diablo 2. In CoD4 you level to 55, once you reach 55 you have a choice of entering prestige mode or remain level 55. Prestige mode resets everything back to level 1 and takes away all the new weapons you earned. What is the bonus of this? You get to replay the game for one in online play without having to change your name, and you earn a new rank. Prestige mode can be done up to 10 times total in CoD4. It would sort of be a mix between that and Diablo 2 where you have Acts 1,2,3,4, and 5. You restart the game but in diablo you dont lose your gear, the monsters just get harder. So what if you incorporate both these ideas into PV. Once you hit the level cap you have the choice of returning to level 1, where all your gear would just be taken off (as apposed to lost because you know players would have ways around this with trading), and placed in their inventory to be stored later. The player could also lose half their stat points they placed in each category. So you started with 16 Str and 21 Intel and other stats as well, by the time you reach the level cap and decide to restart you would have 25 Str and 35 Intel, so you would lose half of (25-16) on your Str points and half of (35-21) on your Intel points and other stats as well. Your skill/spell points could do the same thing. If it cost you 6 points in Firebreath to learn that skill, you would be dropped down to 3 points, and it would take you another 3 to reagan that spell knowledge. This would enable the player to max out and learn all the stats, spells, and abilities that he couldnt have done just leveling up to the cap one time. Now im not sure if you could do different realms where after you enter the 'Prestige mode' of PV the monsters would be harder. Or you could maybe even at the level 1 restart, you increase the amount of exp required to level by like 50% or even double the require exp, thus making the player hunt at harder places when leveling because it would take more time and experience.

[Karl G.]

I think that "prestige mode" could be a really good concept if implemented properly! I'll definitely consider it. What do you think, Joe?

[ziggman]

im not joe, but i think it could work well too. however you shouldnt bealbe to do it more than once or twice, because you would end up with volucris junkie that has cycled his character 5 times and EVERYONE looses against him pvp. after spending 6 months or so leveling my character to the maximum cap, I wouldnt want to start over.

at lower levels the cycle would reflect a dramatic change
as you level up the cycle effect would diminish and not be a huge controbution in pvp.

what are your thoughts on a character that ages? the only way to rid yourself of age is by doing some type of daily quest that gives you "elixer of youth" or by cycling your character? and when you cycle you keep your regen/experience stats. everything else Excluding gear is reset. stats/class/skills ect... just throwing out some random thoughts...

[Thunderhorse8128]

What I said was retarded and I had'nt finished the thread yet so I deleted what I wrote.