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Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:57 am
by marzuku
Just a post trying to figure out what would be a better system for what gets adressed.

Wepons:
1. You get less damage when you wield two wepons(goes against logic)
2.you get more damage when wielding a shield but you also get protection(which sounds wierd compared to point nr 1)
3. Wepons which are "Slow" may give you a delay which might cause your character to get stuck and stand still or not even attack, only melee characters would notice this cause casters dont have any real delay do they?

Dualwield: Faster damage with avarage wepons(sick damage with rare wepons at endgame?).
Suggestion1: dont reduce the damage at all. two wepons = x2 damage, but at the loss of protection not damage.

Suggestion 2: Shield: When one is using a shield your damage should not increase, it should decrease because logically you are wearing a heavy item in your offhand and therefore you attack more slowly and with less force, you guys already have a normal shield damage though, you just need to up dualwield.

suggestion3: Remove the delay on every attack and bind it to one thing, Agility, the delay is making players get stuck because the computer says that after 1 swing ur supoused to slow down bla bla bla, and this is written into the game and causes players getting stuck.
we had this on alpha and some players would be crazy fast(agility) and some would be crazy damage(strenght/intel) and some would be crazy tanks(alot of health/constitution) no wepon had an attack speed, but now we do.. so what do we do?

Suggestion: Bring back the agility based attack speed. dunno if karl and joe somehow lost all the nice systems they had developed for alpha which can be used in beta.

example of it in use:

i create a character and ive got a sick halberd with really slow attack in store, i create the character and up his agility so he can swing the slow wepon faster and faster until it swings like a dagger really fast.
some may think this will be just overpowered, but no because upping agility will make me use stats elsewhere then strength so i will actually not be a good player before high lvls but thats the whole point of xen, evidyon, a hardcore game where you design your own warrior and it doesnt automaticly grow for you like other stupid games.

Armors:
Well yeah some may say they are improvements from Alpha(butt then they didnt play alpha alot), i still see the same pyjamas only a little more bulks, some items however are actually cool, like the iron plate etc but thats a low level armor.

Holy:

Holy should be not be yellow, yellow just makes you look incredibly lame, if players from alpha remember the spirit dragon axes Devine shield(should be spirit shield) they where actually a nice texture and looked quite "Holy", i suggest you keep the metallic texture(looks great) and add a Brighter version of Spirit texture from alpha maybe add some small "devine lights, now that would be worthy of "Holy".
Wepons could have a devine light in it, maybe a crystal in the middle of them glowing?

Earthern:
Earthern armors are basically the same gear as holy only copied and changed colors, im guessing the name Earthern derives from Earthern elementals or something. These armors could be less beige and be gray, black, kinda like the Bone armors on alpha?

Lightning:
i dunno where the idea come from, but from earthern too lightning theres 3 different pj's and comming up with wearing a lightning suit was pretty lame, a leather item infused and created by harvesting lightning should at least look a little leathery.
and the wepons could have some kind og graphic lightning surging through them.

Clubs when they lie on the ground they are so tiny that they actually look like a piece of p00p, maybe make them a little larger.

Boots lying on the ground, good job.
Gloves lying on the ground, good job.

Helmets, you should do more work on helmets so they dont look like something id use while on a bicycle(though id never use one :roll: )


Map:

The Map you have scrapped together seems unfinnished, the starting area for one should be larger and maybe further away from town there could be gaps in the ground, but not until you have reached some higher levels.

Also, if this map is unfinnished and is a 5% representation of what to come then we should definetly have a map.
and i know karl is all about the exploration of the game, but what if it was like diablo, the map isnt clear before you actually have explored the part you are going to? this way you would also notice what parts of the map you have not visited.


Leveling: i think its actually a little to easy to level, its all just spam and level, i feel like we are getting to powerfull items to use and low level and to many good spells, some spells should have a higher level requirement.

Balancing between melee and casters should be tuned aswell.

Macavity

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:40 am
by LEXIC
I agree, the item graphics are hysterical. Most of the helmets look like you are an arab and have a towel on your head. I agree that the lower level armor looks half decent, but the earth, yellow and blue armors look like they are jump suits. Boots are good on ground but they should show on your character. Same with gloves and belts.

It seems as though all gloves and belts look the same on the ground, can this be changed so that each type looks unique.

Please don't go the route EJ took in which he just paints existing models shitty colors to make different items.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:27 am
by Erich
So much hating in this thread.. I'll try to take these one at a time.

marzuku wrote:1. You get less damage when you wield two wepons(goes against logic)

This was fixed in 3.6 - go check dmg on a skeleton by checking your DPS for 30 second intervals.
marzuku wrote:2.you get more damage when wielding a shield but you also get protection(which sounds wierd compared to point nr 1)

This was fixed in 3.6.
marzuku wrote:3. Wepons which are "Slow" may give you a delay which might cause your character to get stuck and stand still or not even attack, only melee characters would notice this cause casters dont have any real delay do they?

This is true - a quick fix I found out is just to not mash your spin key on your keyboard. Wait till the spin is finished before you cast another one and it's fine - although this is a bug that we need to look in to, it's not high on the priority list.
marzuku wrote:Dualwield: Faster damage with avarage wepons(sick damage with rare wepons at endgame?).
Suggestion1: dont reduce the damage at all. two wepons = x2 damage, but at the loss of protection not damage.

If we were to implement this, than a single-handed weapon would have to to half of the damage of a two-handed weapon, otherwise everyone would only use dual-wielding. I believe the current method of implementation is accurate in damage. Again, check your damage over 30 seconds against the skeleton and compare to other weapon layouts.
marzuku wrote:Suggestion 2: Shield: When one is using a shield your damage should not increase, it should decrease because logically you are wearing a heavy item in your offhand and therefore you attack more slowly and with less force, you guys already have a normal shield damage though, you just need to up dualwield.

I never noticed this in pre-3.6.0, but as of today (10:03AM my time) with patch 3.6, equipping a shield does not have any effect on your damage. I doubt we will ever make equipping anything have a negative effect on your character...
marzuku wrote:suggestion3: Remove the delay on every attack and bind it to one thing, Agility, the delay is making players get stuck because the computer says that after 1 swing ur supoused to slow down bla bla bla, and this is written into the game and causes players getting stuck.

Really? I didn't know that was how Karl programmed it or how I animated it...
marzuku wrote:we had this on alpha and some players would be crazy fast(agility) and some would be crazy damage(strenght/intel) and some would be crazy tanks(alot of health/constitution) no wepon had an attack speed, but now we do.. so what do we do?

Now you have variety... dual-wielding and equipping a 2-handed weapon should do the same DPS, and equipping a single 1-handed fast weapon should do the same DPS as equipping a single 1-handed average weapon. Just different speeds for different preferences. This is our intention... if it is not the case, then - as we have shown - we patch it.
marzuku wrote:Suggestion: Bring back the agility based attack speed. dunno if karl and joe somehow lost all the nice systems they had developed for alpha which can be used in beta.

Attack speed is agility based; however, we're not looking at an endgame of level 15 in this game. If you were to count your attacks per 5 minutes before and after you put a point into agility, you can see that the frequency of attacks increases with agility, but it is not so noticeable that you are shocked when you put in one point of agility... a person at .. I don't know.. level 50 shouldn't have been maxed out on attack speed since level 10.
marzuku wrote:i create a character and ive got a sick halberd with really slow attack in store, i create the character and up his agility so he can swing the slow wepon faster and faster until it swings like a dagger really fast.

And that's how I'm making my character. Each point of agility has a lesser effect, but if you stack agility up to the (current) maximum level, you might bring a slow weapon down to average speed. By the final level, you will bring it down to faster-than-dagger speed. Keep in mind that your character will be extremely weak with 10 constitution and 10 strength, but you could hit very quickly...
marzuku wrote:Well yeah some may say they are improvements from Alpha(butt then they didnt play alpha alot), i still see the same pyjamas only a little more bulks, some items however are actually cool, like the iron plate etc but thats a low level armor.

Appreciate the criticism. I'll keep that in mind when I make more pajamas.
marzuku wrote:Holy should be not be yellow, yellow just makes you look incredibly lame, if players from alpha remember the spirit dragon axes Devine shield(should be spirit shield) they where actually a nice texture and looked quite "Holy", i suggest you keep the metallic texture(looks great) and add a Brighter version of Spirit texture from alpha maybe add some small "devine lights, now that would be worthy of "Holy".
Wepons could have a devine light in it, maybe a crystal in the middle of them glowing?

But we already have a divine set...
marzuku wrote:Earthern armors are basically the same gear as holy only copied and changed colors, im guessing the name Earthern derives from Earthern elementals or something. These armors could be less beige and be gray, black, kinda like the Bone armors on alpha?

Actually, earth armors don't have shoulderpads, don't have knee pads, and are short sleeved instead of long sleeved. I'm not going to apologize that they both have on a shirt and pants.
marzuku wrote:i dunno where the idea come from, but from earthern too lightning theres 3 different pj's and comming up with wearing a lightning suit was pretty lame, a leather item infused and created by harvesting lightning should at least look a little leathery.
and the wepons could have some kind og graphic lightning surging through them.

That's your personal opinion. I like what I made.
marzuku wrote:Clubs when they lie on the ground they are so tiny that they actually look like a piece of p00p, maybe make them a little larger.

That's cute. They might have been too low on the Y-axis as swords were - I'll look into it.
marzuku wrote:Boots lying on the ground, good job. Gloves lying on the ground, good job.

Although these aren't in their final form (they are just images and not models).. thanks.
marzuku wrote:Helmets, you should do more work on helmets so they dont look like something id use while on a bicycle(though id never use one :roll: )

The problem with helmets is that they have to fit a volucris, human, dantalion, geonan, and lucan head with one model. I'm working on a solution to make helmets look more suitable in the future.
marzuku wrote:The Map you have scrapped together seems unfinnished, the starting area for one should be larger and maybe further away from town there could be gaps in the ground, but not until you have reached some higher levels.

I could have sworn we said that the initial map was limited and we were expanding the chaos soon...
marzuku wrote:Also, if this map is unfinnished and is a 5% representation of what to come then we should definetly have a map.
and i know karl is all about the exploration of the game, but what if it was like diablo, the map isnt clear before you actually have explored the part you are going to? this way you would also notice what parts of the map you have not visited.

I agree. You should make one!
marzuku wrote:Leveling: i think its actually a little to easy to level, its all just spam and level, i feel like we are getting to powerfull items to use and low level and to many good spells, some spells should have a higher level requirement.

We'll keep that in mind - maybe an across-the-board damage nerf for players?
marzuku wrote:Balancing between melee and casters should be tuned aswell.

You made another post about this. See the reply there.



*puff puff* round two:

LEXIC wrote:I agree, the item graphics are hysterical. Most of the helmets look like you are an arab and have a towel on your head.

Less racism please.
LEXIC wrote:I agree that the lower level armor looks half decent, but the earth, yellow and blue armors look like they are jump suits.

I'll keep that in mind as I model more jump suits.
LEXIC wrote:Boots are good on ground but they should show on your character.

This groundwork for this has been in place since the release of Beta, but Karl's busy schedule and other pressing needs keep it low on the priority list for implementation. We'd like the world to stop crashing first.
LEXIC wrote:Same with gloves and belts.

Again, glove groundwork is in place and we are working on it. Belts will probably never be implemented, as you can't really notice them on your character anyway. If you can, please tell me: which of the armors that I have modeled have belts on?
LEXIC wrote:It seems as though all gloves and belts look the same on the ground, can this be changed so that each type looks unique.

I have created images for each glove/belt as a unique ground texture, but again, it is low on the priority list for implementation.
LEXIC wrote:Please don't go the route EJ took in which he just paints existing models shitty colors to make different items.

We aren't. But thanks for your criticism.



grumble grumble mutter grumble

~Erich

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 am
by ven
Erich wrote:Appreciate the criticism. I'll keep that in mind when I make more pajamas.

LMFAO that one gave me a good laugh.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:52 am
by Joe M.
*applause*

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:00 am
by Karl G.
Erich did a great job responding, I have nothing more to say.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:55 am
by marzuku
Erich wrote:The problem with helmets is that they have to fit a volucris, human, dantalion, geonan, and lucan head with one model. I'm working on a solution to make helmets look more suitable in the future.


well, i think you should follow the example of other game developers and create different models for reach race?

if i remember right, they create one helmet f.ex "black helmet" and it has a different volume and shape for each race, f.ex a troll would need a larger version.. a lucan would need a longer version... etc.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:58 am
by Karl G.
marzuku wrote:
Erich wrote:The problem with helmets is that they have to fit a volucris, human, dantalion, geonan, and lucan head with one model. I'm working on a solution to make helmets look more suitable in the future.


well, i think you should follow the example of other game developers and create different models for reach race?

if i remember right, they create one helmet f.ex "black helmet" and it has a different volume and shape for each race, f.ex a troll would need a larger version.. a lucan would need a longer version... etc.


At some point I will be adding /hidehelmet and /showhelmet to solve this problem. For the time being, helmets will all stay the same because this is a really minor issue.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:03 am
by Erich
Other game developers also have a huge number of coders working full time to implement said helmets =/

As Karl said, we have bigger priorities right now and this is a minor issue.

Thanks though! :D

~Erich

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:25 pm
by Vapore
Erich wrote:Other game developers also have a huge number of coders working full time to implement said helmets =/

As Karl said, we have bigger priorities right now and this is a minor issue.

Thanks though! :D

~Erich


Someday? :D Haha. I believe the /hide helmet will solve any problem people could have.

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:46 pm
by Glorfindelus
Just to lighten everyones mood:
Image ,
and no I'm not suggesting anything about the models, it's just funny. :D

Re: Suggestions and thoughts for further development

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:58 am
by Karl G.
hahaha thanks for that Glorfin