Unseen Studios

Well i think you've done a mistake in the way you made mana and hp, reason stated below:)

you've made it so that if you want hp/mana you have to check a point on cons or wis.. but you forgot they are passive so that if you where to put 1 point on wisdom, and 1 point equals f.ex 10 mana.. that means you would gain 10 mana per level.. same with cons unless you put another point making it f.ex 20 per lvl.

correct me if im wrong here, this is specificly cons and wis which acts like this, cause i remember Alko telling me to put 21 on cons because it was a bonus, and i would gain more hp each lvl for it, str agility and intel though being dmg stats are not passive.

ALSO, hunters should not be using mana it doesnt seem right, im thinking energy instead like rogues on WoW, and you could only have 100 energy and it would regen according to your agility(only because it seems right)
And some attacks which probably will be used frequently should cost less while powerfull ones might cost more.

Warriors, warriors should not use mana either unless they were to be able to chose a hero class or something like paladin later, they should stick to ferocity or something as a powersource

being that they are warriors, they enjoy battle and all of its aspects, 100 ferocity maximum like the rogue only the warrior does not regenerate his rage he has to attack for it to increase.
(i realize these ideas have been used b4 btw)

I've re-read your post a few times and I can't figure out what exactly you are objecting to with con/wis.

As for the energy idea, sorry, but no that's not going to happen.

Karl G. wrote:As for the energy idea, sorry, but no that's not going to happen.

all you need 2 do is change color to like green and make it regenerate faster.
maybe lower some costs on different attacks like tornado.

you might think its a hazzle but if a critic was to see the game he would point that out.
also people wouldnt understand why some classes had better regen than others when it came to mana.

Warrior could also use energy to be honest, with this you could distinguish melee and caster classes, and even hybrids like paladins(if they were to come)

melee being the ones using energy as a powesource and casters being the ones using mana.

Hmm he's not very clear on what he's saying lol.. Anyways energy sounds lame.. mana works great no need to change it.. i.e. Diablo2 fighter types use mana..

ven wrote:Hmm he's not very clear on what he's saying lol.. Anyways energy sounds lame.. mana works great no need to change it.. i.e. Diablo2 fighter types use mana..

diablo2 is a incredibly old game, besides.. all classes on diablo are semi casters, so it wouldnt be a good comparison.

energy sounds lame? well i think using mana, magic points, and a word with derivation from samoan meaning "great power" is lame when it comes to a class which only uses physical attacks.'

you could also call it rage, ferocity, equilibrium, but what does physical work actually take its powersource from.. Energy which you have stored within your body.

Unnecessary coding. Fine as is.

ven wrote:Unnecessary coding. Fine as is.

you call it unnecessary, a critic would call it confusing and lazy not distinguishing each class with seperate energy systems... but if thats what karl & co wants to go for then go ahead.


if changing texture to mana bar from blue to green is hard then lick me sideways and call me charlie...oh and yeah.. adding a little more regen than what a caster would have.

marzuku wrote:correct me if im wrong here, this is specificly cons and wis which acts like this, cause i remember Alko telling me to put 21 on cons because it was a bonus, and i would gain more hp each lvl for it, str agility and intel though being dmg stats are not passive.

Con/wis does not work that way. A person who starts with 10 con and puts 10 points in it to level 20 will have the same HP as a person who starts with 20 con and puts 0 points in it to level 20. Con/wis bonuses are dependent upon race/class though, so not every level 20 character with the same con will have the same hp.

marzuku wrote:im thinking energy instead like rogues on WoW,

marzuku wrote:warriors should not use mana either unless they were to be able to chose a hero class or something like paladin later, they should stick to ferocity or something as a powersource

This game is not World of Warcraft.

This is Evidyon.
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I mentioned diablo2 because critics said nothing about mana on fighter types.. no critic is going to say hmm he should have energy not mana... mana is the power within the certain classes.. sorcerers have more so they can cast beams and other stuff.. warriors have less so they do what they can like a whirlwind attack

makes no sense at all changing melee clases to energy... Please define your definition of a critic? somebody who is payed to criticize games? or just your average Joe criticizing... none the less such a change would not add to the game play experience. Had this game been made by a big studio mayby then theyd give a #### about what critics said but this is made by what 3 people or some poo? critics mean poo, these guys have the rare opportunity of been able to do what the #### they want without needing to sway with popular opinion... hence why I'm into it.

Erich wrote:

marzuku wrote:correct me if im wrong here, this is specificly cons and wis which acts like this, cause i remember Alko telling me to put 21 on cons because it was a bonus, and i would gain more hp each lvl for it, str agility and intel though being dmg stats are not passive.

Con/wis does not work that way. A person who starts with 10 con and puts 10 points in it to level 20 will have the same HP as a person who starts with 20 con and puts 0 points in it to level 20. Con/wis bonuses are dependent upon race/class though, so not every level 20 character with the same con will have the same hp.

Thats what i told Karl was wrong, XEN had passive mana/hp if you created a character named BOB which you then put x amount of cons into then he would gain those x amount of cons for each level same when it came to mana(check it out yourself if you dont believe me).

ALSO, wondering if this is a freaking bug, if you dont add anything to cons as a warrior you automaticly will have with 10 wis 140 mana or something, but if you add 1 point you go down to 50.

is this a bug?

marzuku wrote:Thats what i told Karl was wrong, XEN had passive mana/hp if you created a character named BOB which you then put x amount of cons into then he would gain those x amount of cons for each level same when it came to mana(check it out yourself if you dont believe me).

Yes this is true... for xen. Not for Evidyon. This isn't a pure Xen clone, sorry.

markzuku wrote:ALSO, wondering if this is a freaking bug, if you dont add anything to cons as a warrior you automaticly will have with 10 wis 140 mana or something, but if you add 1 point you go down to 50.

is this a bug?

Yes it is, and it has been noted by others as well. Thanks for bringing it up though! We like bug reports

~Erich

A more full answer as to why HP/MP doesn't work the way it did in Xen: because our equations are better. Specifically, we have set up the equations to be easily balanceable over a very large range of levels, for which we found this system much better than something like what Xen had. Now the equations may not be balanced just yet, but they're designed in such a way that they'll be very simple to adjust until the right balance is achieved.

Joe M. wrote:A more full answer as to why HP/MP doesn't work the way it did in Xen: because our equations are better. Specifically, we have set up the equations to be easily balanceable over a very large range of levels, for which we found this system much better than something like what Xen had. Now the equations may not be balanced just yet, but they're designed in such a way that they'll be very simple to adjust until the right balance is achieved.

problem with your "equations" are that they have not added the factor of leveling players, high lvl players, stupid players.

A stupid player might go all str agility and wisdom.. and then suddenly notice at lvl 15 that he has the same health as a lvl 1.
Which is why Cons and MP usually in ANY game are passive stats, increasing by each lvl by the amount it already has.
The stat system from xen was absolutely not one of the big "MISTAKES" E.J. made, very configurable, and it had certain requirements for more speedy physical/magical attacks

Nway ill let you tweak your equations

Hm. It may be that I misunderstand what you're saying:
Are you saying that a level 15 and a level 1 of the same race and class, and with the same Constitution score, will have the same HP?

EDIT: anyway, I believe that any points added to Con operate retroactively right now, which should prevent permanent "messing up" of a build.
... but maybe I just don't understand how the current equations operate--I may not be caught up to where they're at right now, but stuck on an older version of their functioning.

marzuku wrote: at lvl 15 that he has the same health as a lvl 1.

Incorrect. A player gains health and magic at a rate relative to his strength(little bit), constitution, race, class, and level. You will never have the same HP two levels in a row, even if you have 10 constitution and never put a point in it.

Joe M. wrote:any points added to Con operate retroactively right now, which should prevent permanent "messing up" of a build.

Correct. A Dantalion Warrior at level 15 with 30 constitution will have the same base HP (not counting items/buffs) as any other Dantalion Warrior at level 15 with 30 constitution, no matter how they got there. If you find you're at low HP... put more points in constitution! It will give you HP as if you had put the point in there when creating your character. Same works for Strength by the way.. it adds a little bit to HP and is also retroactive.

~Erich

Erich wrote:

marzuku wrote: at lvl 15 that he has the same health as a lvl 1.

Incorrect. A player gains health and magic at a rate relative to his strength(little bit), constitution, race, class, and level. You will never have the same HP two levels in a row, even if you have 10 constitution and never put a point in it.

Joe M. wrote:any points added to Con operate retroactively right now, which should prevent permanent "messing up" of a build.

Correct. A Dantalion Warrior at level 15 with 30 constitution will have the same base HP (not counting items/buffs) as any other Dantalion Warrior at level 15 with 30 constitution, no matter how they got there. If you find you're at low HP... put more points in constitution! It will give you HP as if you had put the point in there when creating your character. Same works for Strength by the way.. it adds a little bit to HP and is also retroactive.

~Erich

everything you two are writing and saying is going against any unwritten mmorpg norm.. so ill say thxkkbb, cause this project is now going backwards, who wants to write on a forum where every admin is moody and is holding back everything of info from the testers???

Erich you may not know this.. but karl and freaking joe you should... i was probably one of the most vivid testers you had, and you may have gotten far me and other testers but you would NOT have gotten as far as this, the gratitude is compelling..

marzuku wrote:Erich you may not know this.. but karl and freaking joe you should... i was probably one of the most vivid testers you had, and you may have gotten far me and other testers but you would NOT have gotten as far as this, the gratitude is compelling..

lol ? What's your deal they don't want to make "your" game.. it's there's to make.. you can put in your suggestions and maybe they'll consider it.. you can't make them use your ideas though... Congrats on being a tester you might have helped get Evidyon to where it is now.. but I'm sure they could have found the bugs just as well as you did. Plus there was other testers that could have as well if you weren't there.

marzuku wrote:everything you two are writing and saying is going against any unwritten mmorpg norm

Sweet! We don't just want to be another clone

marzuku wrote:who wants to write on a forum where every admin is moody

I spy emotion!

marzuku wrote:holding back everything of info from the testers???

You're our beloved testers, not our supervisors. We make a lot of changes and not all of them stay the same between updates. Updates are just temporarily-stable agreements about what needs to be done... which are subject to change.

marzuku wrote:i was probably one of the most vivid testers you had

Thanks!

marzuku wrote:but you would NOT have gotten as far as this

Good things come to those who wait.
Patience is a virtue.
All in due time.
Platitude, etc.

marzuku wrote:this project is now going backwards

I rofled. As you said before, we don't show you the stuff going on behind the scenes because... well it's behind the scenes. We're getting loads of stuff accomplished! I know I've been working 5+ hours a day on models/textures while still doing my 8-hour shifts at work and Karl works on Evidyon almost every waking moment that he can.

marzuku wrote:so ill say thxkkbb

If you're going to flake out this quickly I'm disappointed. I'm sorry the game isn't going the way you want it to, but if our game design decisions have offended you that much, I guess there's not that much we can do.

~Erich

Read the whole post, have a couple of responses:

1. 10 wis -> 140 mp then reducing to 50 is a bug

2. Marz, you're talking past us without actually reading (or perhaps fully realizing) the direct responses of Erich and Joe. This is where I think the confusion came in:

Erich wrote:

marzuku wrote:Thats what i told Karl was wrong, XEN had passive mana/hp if you created a character named BOB which you then put x amount of cons into then he would gain those x amount of cons for each level same when it came to mana(check it out yourself if you dont believe me).

Yes this is true... for xen. Not for Evidyon. This isn't a pure Xen clone, sorry.

You are referring to whether or not there is passive HP/MP gain in this game. HP is passive. MP is passive. There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE from how we do our stats as compared to Xen's, if you're considering post-2003 Xenimus except that our equations are (1) more stable (2) easier to balance and (3) generate numbers that start around 50-70 rather than 5. If you respec to 30 cons in xen at level 50, you'll get the same hp as someone who added points to get 30 cons at level 10 and just kept it there for the next 40 levels.