Question about how the stats are going to be.

[joeafro]

o.k. before the stat update you know how the stats mattered when you put them on, will that be in effect?

IE: the beast within back in the day when annerie still played (god i miss her) she had 3.5k hp and like 2.8k mp because she was a dreg cleric with 29str and like 34cons when she first started out...

will stats be used like this again? i would undeniably <3 it~~!

[Karl G.]

I was planning on making it work that way unless someone can come up with a good argument for the other.

This would mean you could never respec, though.

[Joe M.]

On the one hand, having a stats system like that minimizes the extent to which characters can become clones of each other, especially at the early stages of the game.

It also increases the investment in a particular avatar. This can be both a good and a bad thing. It's good because we want each avatar to be distinct, and if players are attached to their avatars, it will make the game more interesting. It's bad because you can't learn from your mistakes and still keep the avatar that you love so much. Imagine realizing at lvl 25 or so that you screwed up your stats allocation. That's a lot of work that needs to be redone if you want to fix the problem.

I would argue for a system in which certain things (hp and mp, specifically) are not determined by the level at which you increase a stat, but I don't have time right now. So that's my 2 cents.

[Massive]

I agree that the old way was interesting, created variety, and required foresight. (Although in those days, secondary stats were also variable, which is rubbish - any kind of randomness needs to be eliminated from character creation and progression.)

I'd much prefer the system whereby it makes a difference when you apply your stat points.

But of course, there's not only the drawback to someone who plans poorly. As EJ discovered, a game in development needs to evolve, but nerfing a character that cannot subsequently be repaired is inexcusable. If this system is to be employed, then is there a way to alter stat effects, classes, and the like without unfairly nerfing characters?

Perhaps the game needs to record at what point in the character's development a stat was actually added, and the effect it bestowed - its context - so that limited respecs could be applied (with limited points applied retrospectively, in the same way that shrines might work...)

[Simpo]

if there is going to be a continuous flow of respecs, ill will be most disappointed.

[Karl G.]

I'm not sure what to do about respecing yet, although my instinct is to not allow it. But let's tackle that issue when we get there

[Simpo]

i mean, if one character is going to respec hes stats twice, three times + .. then i think, that person, is going to pursuit a perfect stat'd character.

i wanna be hearing, "man! i fkd up on 4 stats!"

i can foresay now, i wouldent mind havin a useless stat or 2, just to keep characters their originality.

[Karl G.]

Well if there is going to be a useless stat or if the stats do something weird, I'm not going to be telling anyone

It's up to you guys to figure it out! hehe.

[Paz the Spaz]

I think that having no respecs isn't a bad idea. After all, in the end they stream of them is always hogged by the higher lvls, like in Xen. However, I think that classes should be slightly more versatile than in Xenimus and each stat actually DOES something. So for example, if you have a paladin with wisdom, you can be like an in-between fighter/cleric geared for to the melee side, but with stronger healing/obstare/buffs. Maybe agility should make you cast faster (thinks of Yogurt, if that was the warlock with a ton of agi). That way, no matter how much you screw up your char, you won't suck (too much). Instead you can be a jack-of-all trades, master of none .

[Simpo]

or, if there is gunna be any respec for that matter. make it drop from one mad/insane boss which repsawns once ever 4-5 months.

id like to be hearing around town, 'tha next respec drops in a few weeks'. imagine tha team work!

[Karl G.]

hey, that's a good idea! teamwork is the win

[Simpo]

=P

[Ratiotile]

So what has happened with the stat system? I've read that Karl finished the HP/MP equations and stat screen...

I should have pointed it out earlier that even with the deterministic pre-update stat system, it is possible to respec. It involves increased storage space. Instead of just storing current stats, also store when the stat points were placed, in an array or a list. Since players only get one stat point per level, make the index of the array represent player_level-2, and in each slot record the stat that was raised that level. A list would be simple to do as well. Knowing this information, you can calculate the current hidden stats/hp/mp. To respec, all that would happen is that the stat time data is rewritten and the current stats recalculated.

However, I still don't really support the idea of a respec potions being a commodity. I can understand giving players a no-drop/no-trade potion after a major game update, though.

[Massive]

I should have pointed it out earlier that even with the deterministic pre-update stat system, it is possible to respec. It involves increased storage space. Instead of just storing current stats, also store when the stat points were placed, in an array or a list. Since players only get one stat point per level, make the index of the array represent player_level-2, and in each slot record the stat that was raised that level. A list would be simple to do as well. Knowing this information, you can calculate the current hidden stats/hp/mp. To respec, all that would happen is that the stat time data is rewritten and the current stats recalculated.

However, I still don't really support the idea of a respec potions being a commodity. I can understand giving players a no-drop/no-trade potion after a major game update, though.

Precisely my thinking Ratiotile! That addresses what I see as both the major considerations - have the system record the relative placement of stat points, and consider the provision of universal re-specs for game development.