Thougts on steals.

[Vitriol]

Ive been playing xenimus recently and I noticed that the game is very different for mages. Mages used to be tied to mana pools. They would kill some enemies, return to the pool for mana, and repeat. Now with steals mages can hunt indefinatly without ever touching a mana pool or even waiting for regen. I must argue this is unfair. Fighter classes have to spend money for everything, ports, trans wants, and all that. Mages have way to much and advantage as far as leveling goes. Here is my suggestion:

1. spells cant steal mana just because you are holding an mp steal weapon.
2. Make higher intelligence actually increase the exp per enemy substantially.
3. Make regen more rare, but still more common that it was in old xenimus.

This will encourage mages to either hunt in areas with mana pools or stand around waiting every few seconds for mana to regenerate. It will also make mages build their characters for deep mp pools rather than going all constitution. This is a return to old xenimus mage leveling and stat building.
Regen should be harder to get than it is in xenimus now, but easier in old xenimus. This should provide a good balanced between mages and fighters leveling.

[Karl G.]

I agree that, to put fighters and mages on an even level, mages should be tied to an mp pool. This way, if there are two characters who should be "equally powerful", the fighter can constantly tank through monster after monster, while the mage can kill a few groups and then have to go back for more mana (or use up a potion).

[Ratiotile]

I agree that mages should not be able to steal from spells. MP regen should be made more effective to compensate, as fighters don't worry about MP and can kill monsters nearly as fast as a mage. Fighters today are not at a disadvantage because they can attack run and spin indefinitely, as attack run costs 1 MP and they easily steal the mp back for spin. Attack run allows the fighter to gather monsters as well if not better than a mage, because the mage must spend mana to trans around. I'd say that Xenimus is balanced right now in regard to mage/fig leveling, once the fighter class has spin. Fighters are only hard to level before they have spin. There are more mages around because fighters are boring and much harder to level early on.

[a_link_to_the_past]

Perhaps lowering fighters spin a couple lvls?

[JSunJShineR]

or perhaps make all multi-kill spells 15, but fighters get run at 12, mages get lets say ice wind at 12 or something, this way it is hard to get to 12 but easier to lvl for both classes to get to 15 for their multi-kill spell. I like no steals but what I dont like is have to spend time porting... make fast port 22 how it was back in the day. or else make maxies cheaper and run attack cost more. Your pretty much doing what EJ does... he thinks he makes a class balanced but then goes to far and end up having to buld up other classes, never ending cycle. hence each class is insanely easy to level.(especially DW, i dont think that they should be in this game unless they are using the same system as i referred to earlier.

[ziggman]

i agree with Viritol, mages are SO much easier than figs always have been.
i think that a mage can steal mp, if the mage is a battle mage, or a battle cleric. but what about spin attack? isnt that a spell tho? i think the exp gain from intell has always been too high.

[Nenitus]

i think the exp gain from intell has always been too high.

Unless Ej changed in in the like year i havent played, it was only +1 exp per intel point...(or at certain levels of intel points.. like 12, 15, 18, etc)
that may be like 3x the exp if you kill a bug, but its insignificant for other monsters.

i think the steals are useful, but they shouldnt be enough to keep you going forever and ever.
not just mages but fighters too.
fighters mp steal is fine, they need it since they have like 20 mp.
but hp steal, it shouldnt be as high as it used to be.
you shouldnt be able to just run into like 50 monsters which would normally kill you in 2 hits, and survive, simply because you steal 10x your hp per hit.
same with mages mp steal - it should not keep them at full mp when they hunt.
that way a mage can decide between loss of damage bonus for spells (using a staff), but requiring mp pool, or choose less damage, but requiring mp pool less often (not going "forever" without stopping at an mp pool, as was the case when i last played...)
regens are fine, i think, as they cause you to stop and regen, as opposed to storm into a bunch of monsters and be instantly replenished.

[Vitriol]

I think if my idea is implemented then mages will be balanced with fighters. even better if you make hard enemies like supers and wizard adepts give a great deal of exp. Fighters will hunt large groups of enemies and mages will fight low numbers of high xp per capita enemies, always near a mana pool.

[Ratiotile]

I think if my idea is implemented then mages will be balanced with fighters. even better if you make hard enemies like supers and wizard adepts give a great deal of exp. Fighters will hunt large groups of enemies and mages will fight low numbers of high xp per capita enemies, always near a mana pool.

How will that stop fighters from leveling by hunting large groups of high exp monsters like adepts, since they still steal? In oldschool xen before steal, fighters could hunt supers/adepts a few levels before mages could, though they'd be using med wands. Unless you increase damage of mages relative to fighters, the advantage would go towards the fighter. Fighters actually deal more damage than mages now, and the damage is dealt instantly, unlike beam/zap.

[ziggman]

if we are talking about hunting why not make creatures specifically designed for mage or fighter class? as far as steals if your weapon does not touch a monster/player you should not steal mp or hp.

[Vitriol]

as far as steals if your weapon does not touch a monster/player you should not steal mp or hp.

Thats what im getting at, spin can still steal mp/hp. although hp steal should be toned down, if only with spin.

How will that stop fighters from leveling by hunting large groups of high exp monsters like adepts, since they still steal? In oldschool xen before steal, fighters could hunt supers/adepts a few levels before mages could, though they'd be using med wands. Unless you increase damage of mages relative to fighters, the advantage would go towards the fighter. Fighters actually deal more damage than mages now, and the damage is dealt instantly, unlike beam/zap.

Not sure exactly what your getting at. EJ has changed alot. In the xenimus I remember mages always dealt the highest damage, but because people didnt build hp mages, mages went down easy. Fighters, dealing less damage but taking more, were balanced in that way. Mages were all about maximum firepower while fighters were about stability. They were reliable, as opposed to mages who shot fast and if they didnt take down the enemy they died.
Id like to bring this back. Xenimus as it is now seems focused on balancing the classes by ease of level. Mages level easier but are just weaker all around. I was fighting a lvl 21 paladin with my lvl 26 warlock and we were going about 50/50. I would win only half the time even though i was 5 levels ahead. Thats messed up.

[Ratiotile]

Not sure exactly what your getting at. EJ has changed alot. In the xenimus I remember mages always dealt the highest damage, but because people didnt build hp mages, mages went down easy. Fighters, dealing less damage but taking more, were balanced in that way. Mages were all about maximum firepower while fighters were about stability. They were reliable, as opposed to mages who shot fast and if they didnt take down the enemy they died.
Id like to bring this back. Xenimus as it is now seems focused on balancing the classes by ease of level. Mages level easier but are just weaker all around. I was fighting a lvl 21 paladin with my lvl 26 warlock and we were going about 50/50. I would win only half the time even though i was 5 levels ahead. Thats messed up.

Exactly. Fighter builds now start with 16 cons, go str and agil, and never touch cons again until str is at 50. This is because strength gives too much HP. The difference at level 20 between balanced STR & CONS and all STR is only 30-40 HP, so of course they will go with STR for more damage. I've seen a high level fighter kill a level 34 HP mage before he had a chance to escape, while he could trans away from a high level mage's beam. At 39 AGI and omni velocitas, a fighter gets fast hit, which means he can attack about 3 times a second, fast enough that the sound and graphics glitch. STR affects melee damage and gives HP, while INT only effects spell damage, so mages are at a disadvantage. The current STR fighter builds rival balanced mage builds for damage, and all INT mage builds are not viable in PVP because they cannot take hits.

[thadiusofx3]

I prefer to differ. My mage could tank almost any fighter in the game. They were the easiest classes to kill, and did the least damage to me. Mages on the other hand were much harder to fight and kill than fighters.

Who was your highest level character ratiotile?

[Ratiotile]

I prefer to differ. My mage could tank almost any fighter in the game. They were the easiest classes to kill, and did the least damage to me. Mages on the other hand were much harder to fight and kill than fighters.

Who was your highest level character ratiotile?

At what level range? In the extreme high levels, mages' damage takes the upper hand because they get more powerful beams. Fighters typically top out at 50 or 61 strength with jeloc, which is levels 36 to 42. Their damage basically doesn't increase past that point. I forgot the name of the fighter I was talking about, but I believe he is the highest level fighter in the game. A level 30 would die instantly from him, but could trans away from a high level mage. Are you fighting a higher level fighter? because they are much easier if you can dispel their strength and velo charges. Also, what era did you play your mage in, recently or in the past?

To answer your question, I can say I've never played a character higher than level 36.

[thadiusofx3]

I could fight pretty much any fighter in the game save 1 or 2 because they were way above me.
I was a level 52 cleric and could wipe the floor with any fighter up to 8 levels above me, but mages just 4 levels above me were a challenge.

and 36 is pretty low level these days

[Ratiotile]

Think about it: fighters past level 40 do not get any significant bonuses to damage. Where mages get inf beam and omni beam, fighters get more levels of spin, which is not as good as it used to be in PvP. There are no new weapons for fighters to get. That is why high level mages outpace fighters. However for PV, there will be no such high levels, and fighters are very powerful in the 20's to 30's.

Spin should be replaced or supplemented with another area attack. Have an attack where the fighter slashes in a semicircle in front of him. It would be like half a spin, and it could be learned earlier and make it less boring to level. Players can only stand so much of constantly left-clicking monsters one at a time.

I don't think classes should be balanced by ease of level. Any two characters with decent builds on the same level should be competitive. Each class should level at the same rate. If you are against this, explain why.