Unseen Studios

Karl G. wrote:- We couldn't have shrine-type areas because people would just portal to the end of them.

No they wont, xen had these areas where spells like trans was delayed and creara porta couldnt be marked, which is why a shrine would have to be walked through. unless it got hard and u ported OUT of it.
Also Ej had certain spots which you could not mark, Castles, Shrines etc.

Karl G. wrote:- No part of dungeons could be "special" because people would just ignore the rest of the dungeon completely--and we would have wasted our time and the server's resources creating them.

Same answer as before, imagine making a Square like hunting ground which you cant trans or port on once you get on it to grind? the reason could pop up on screen when entering "foul magics seem to be blocking some of your powers", in such a area you would only be able to attack, gasform, run attack etc no trans or porting until you left that area.(this would make it also risky grinding such places because you couldnt just PORT back)

Karl G. wrote:- Unique monsters would have to be severely limited in the items they drop and the exp they give, otherwise they'd never spawn for more than a few minutes since people would be constantly camping them

if you had several spots like this in a huge bum world i promisse people would pk for the spots they had(which was fun on xen), though extremely hard and good giving exp monsters should have a timer of at least 3-5 minuttes so that you could clear other spots before returning.

- All delivery quests, discovery quests (visit these areas, talk to these people, find this shrine) would be pointless since the player could skip everything by just getting someone to portal them to all the necessary points

Well, the idea behind portals for me was that it was going to be high lvl spell, and low lvls would still have to travel quite alot around, and to balance this out a high lvl quest would f.ex have tight timelimits and several spots you would have 2 go to complete.

- As soon as new map content was added to the game, it wouldn't be new anymore even if the people discovering it tried to keep it secret. Ex: One person figures out the trick to getting into a secret hall filled with cool monsters and good loot. He ports there, someone else porthops and marks the location. Being a douche this other person just sits in town making portals to the area and everyone now has a mark inside the area.

Thats why Ej inserted a stop action button which closed all portals stopped all attacks, so that you could keep your hunting grounds secret, i even would go out of town before i ever ported somewhere, this was part of the risks and also then part of alot of fun.

Karl G. wrote:- Players far below the level which an area is intended for can probably get anywhere in it without much trouble--portal, trans/trans/trans, mark, die, respawn. Repeat X times.

only if you make it possible to portal back to the spot where you died, i say it should be reset, and if you are bothered about low lvls wanting to grind high lvl monsters then just make it so that theres a huge difference between monsters lvls so they die and dont try anymore.
Also, part of some of the xen fun was finding friends who had better spots than you had, like isle, lava imps, new wars, old wars, ds trolls.

And here are some problems with preventing marks in a dungeon or area:

Karl G. wrote:- If you run out of potions or supplies, you're pretty much screwed since you can't get back in without starting over.

which is why only real hardcore players would be able to do this, and a real good player always went back 2 town after he had 0 pots left, even though he most likely found some pots WHILE grinding, also EJ had some spots which were non markable and non portable, but he also had several hybrid dungeons/hunting spots, where u could not trans but you could port out.

Karl G. wrote:- If you die & respawn in a dungeon you have to start completely over, and your gear will almost certainly be gone by the time you get back. If the cost of accessing the dungeon is very high you just basically wasted your time.

part of the risks yes, but on xen you could easily if using your brain get a mark near where u lost your gear, and most likely would lie on the ground getting "guild/link" to help you.

Karl G. wrote:- Since monsters spawn constantly, there is no safe place to wait and talk strategy (or talk to someone in real life who may be more important than the game you're currently playing). Since you can't leave, it's basically just a constant fight.

you can alter the spawnrate of monsters at certain hard spots.


All you have to do karl is make square like hunting grounds which some spells are not permitted, which is what GH/SHRINES etc was about, you could not Mark inside a shrine EVER, you could not trans fast through a shrine EVER the spell was delayed by like 10 seconds, and if you tried Gassing you would get dispelled and most likely might die if a noob.

really like the idea of some intelligent monsters acting wierdly towards certain spells, but that could f.ex be a boss which could pull you back and forth with his powers if you wanted to escape.

Also you said people would be portalling in and out of bosses, why just not make bosses inside dungeons where you had 0 mark ability? also i recall that Ej made it so that such spots where useless for high lvls players so they would never waste a mark on such spots.

many solutions if you just read and recall past xen.

Marz, I'd like to summarize your post so you can reflect on what you are proposing. Take a step back and see if you can understand where I'm coming from. (Remember, we're on the same side!)

This is what I read:

Step 1: Introduce portals
Step 2: Make portals not work in almost any situation
Step 3: Dismiss remaining problems


Here are the exact quotes from your post:
Make portals not work in almost any situation:

marzuku wrote:areas where spells like trans was delayed and creara porta couldnt be marked

marzuku wrote:imagine making a Square like hunting ground which you cant trans or port on

marzuku wrote:no trans or porting until you left that area

marzuku wrote: the spell was delayed by like 10 seconds

marzuku wrote: why just not make bosses inside dungeons where you had 0 mark ability

Dismiss remaining problems:

marzuku wrote:Thats why Ej inserted a stop action button

This still doesn't solve the root problem: as soon as someone discovers an area, they can take anyone they want to it.

marzuku wrote:only if you make it possible to portal back to the spot where you died, i say it should be reset

I think you misunderstood me here: the problem isn't low-level players hunting high-level monsters. The problem is that trying to make ridiculously-high-level monsters guard an area so that only high-level players can make it in would be useless. Before trans was limited, I could make it to the end of str, con and agi shrines in Xen at around level 14.

marzuku wrote:which is why only real hardcore players would be able to do this

And at least half of the people who will play Evidyon are just not that hard-core--but people like me would still like to enjoy the game.

marzuku wrote:really like the idea of some intelligent monsters acting wierdly towards certain spells, but that could f.ex be a boss which could pull you back and forth with his powers if you wanted to escape.

I'm glad you like that, I think it's a cool idea too.

Hmmm

the dismissed problems, well i kinda see your point on why making a huge a$$ explorable map when you can get ported to every spot anyway?

1.Well i figured out a possible solution, well here goes nothing, you whom av played wow probably know about cooldown times on teleporting an entire party back to a city, what if we had recall for own grinding and then a cooldown on a portal? this way people would rarely waste a port on any one but themselves, and you would have to actually find spots to mark between all your hunting grounds.(just a thought)


2. You could trans to the end of all the shrines at lvl 14? thats wierd there was a teleport delay on every shrine was it not? and some high levels would grind there so i doubt a lvl 14 would be able to trans uber slowly without help.
but i dont understand, would you like shrines to be easy or hard? id like em medium hard so that not only friends with highlvls can go but also a group of mates.


3.Well, you will probably make areas which will be harder than others, im sure you could make zones with different skill requirements, im the kinda type that turns of game sounds and turns on Neoplasma on my headphones and just grind Red SQ, some will be of the types that grind mobs carefully with invis. just differ the difficulty of zones to attract more and more players.

#2 first, since it's quick: When I first played you could trans without delay in shrines. He realized this fairly quickly and got mad at people for doing it.


I haven't played WoW so I don't know about how the ports work in that game, but having some sort of timer on them may be a good solution. Can you elaborate on how this works?

It may just come down to trying out different things and seeing what works--the problem with that, of course, being that it sucks pretty bad when the devs take away something from the game for the abstract reason of "balancing".

Another Idea:

So what about this: a full marks & portals system, some maps can't be marked, and players can only go through their own portals.

This solves the problem of a shrinking world because in order to acquire marks, players will have to find their way at least once to wherever they want to get--they can't just get magicked to all the good spots. The new map content would also work, because then people would actually explore it in the way it was designed.

Camping hard monsters is solved, because if they're at the end of a dungeon that can't be marked then players will have to beat the whole thing every time they want to see if its there or not. This should discourage camping pretty well.

I suppose that not being able to mark hard areas would also help solve the problem of low-level players progressing through areas via the port-walk-mark-die-repeat process. Not being able to mark still seems like a hack but it is tying up some of these problems pretty well...

Unfortunately this doesn't solve all the problems. Timed delivery quests could still be gamed. If the delivery quest was randomized in some way (deliver from 1 city to one of 5 locations spread out in the world, for example) most people probably wouldn't bother trying to mark all of them and would just do the quest like we intended.

Karl G. wrote:#2 first, since it's quick: When I first played you could trans without delay in shrines. He realized this fairly quickly and got mad at people for doing it.


I haven't played WoW so I don't know about how the ports work in that game, but having some sort of timer on them may be a good solution. Can you elaborate on how this works?

It may just come down to trying out different things and seeing what works--the problem with that, of course, being that it sucks pretty bad when the devs take away something from the game for the abstract reason of "balancing".

Another Idea:

So what about this: a full marks & portals system, some maps can't be marked, and players can only go through their own portals.

This solves the problem of a shrinking world because in order to acquire marks, players will have to find their way at least once to wherever they want to get--they can't just get magicked to all the good spots. The new map content would also work, because then people would actually explore it in the way it was designed.

Camping hard monsters is solved, because if they're at the end of a dungeon that can't be marked then players will have to beat the whole thing every time they want to see if its there or not. This should discourage camping pretty well.

I suppose that not being able to mark hard areas would also help solve the problem of low-level players progressing through areas via the port-walk-mark-die-repeat process. Not being able to mark still seems like a hack but it is tying up some of these problems pretty well...

Unfortunately this doesn't solve all the problems. Timed delivery quests could still be gamed. If the delivery quest was randomized in some way (deliver from 1 city to one of 5 locations spread out in the world, for example) most people probably wouldn't bother trying to mark all of them and would just do the quest like we intended.

I always liked being able to go through other peoples portals.. In fact, I found in very entertaining

Although putting ALL "hard monsters" (by that I'm guessing you mean Boss's) at the end of a dungeon (that can't be marked) is un-xen-like .. Most of the major Hard boss's could Literally be marked right where they would spawn (except the Mummy at FS Skellys, which wouldn't let you mark in the magic area that was ONLY level 30 and Below)

Although from what I had seen recently (couple of months ago) there must be a few more Major High Level boss's.. And they are easy to get to, for 1 reason: THEY DON'T FUCKING DIE!!!!!!

I saw at least 30+ level 40+'s attacking this one guy for 30 minutes non-stop.. Whilst >One< was taking a beating from this speed/dmg whore (for the life of me I can't remember the boss's name)


The so called "port-mark-die-repeat" idea sounds like complete crockshit. Cause that's not a game problem, thats a personal problem.. XD

WoW Cooldown system makes it so that if you use certain spells they will all have a Timer set which counts down until it is usable again, f.ex you could have a timer in the upper right/left corner for that.

Port Jumping
Once again Karl, i rarely ever met any one who would give me their own grinding mark, why? because i was a PK'r and nobody wants to get pk'd just because they gave away their secret grinding spot, but if i wanted to ever have a grinding spot people would also show me the way instead of porting.

Port jumping was one of the coolest things XEN had before Ej secured it because of whine from people getting pk'd.

Why cool?: You enter a portal at own risk, this could be a port pk, you could find a secret hideout, get lost, get pk'd manually by some one on the other side, or pk them for letting the portal stay open.
Why not cool?: Some people are afraid of pk'rs and seem to be whiny b!tches. A Portal is a Portal it is logical that any one could use such a thing? its like a doorway, if i could enter karl and rabit could probably aswell? until i closed it of course, get it?

Games get better with great risks, some people might get sad over the fact that others enjoy jumping into their ports, but if you really want to be sure nobody jumps into your portal, then you can safely leave town and port out, and close the portal behind you like many high levels did.
i myself port pk'd etc, and i gladly shared my marks with those who willingly wanted to enter my portals, which was a great way of getting allies and gear.

Still i suport the idea of having dungeons and some maps un markable or else people will do as karl said, just portal to the end boss.
If you make some squares delayed when it comes to transing, and insert smart mobs dispelling gasform, then high lvls would have to walk through with low levels, or the low lvl would die.

Lets say a portal is like a pandoras box, you never know what will come out of opening it.

anyway, i dont actually like recall, if we just had 0-9 marks and the stuff we have been talking about then i would be happy.

"Suport of rabits post"

We should have some hard bosses, but they should be hard and not super long lasting so that you blow an entire life of grind on one, just a boss that easily can take you down if you suck.

Yeah.. I suppose not being able to mark at boss's is going to hurt anybody >.< lol

I just don't have the time to dick around when I already know whats at the end, but don't know if he is there or not..

Karl G. wrote:Another Idea:

So what about this: a full marks & portals system, some maps can't be marked, and players can only go through their own portals.

This solves the problem of a shrinking world because in order to acquire marks, players will have to find their way at least once to wherever they want to get--they can't just get magicked to all the good spots. The new map content would also work, because then people would actually explore it in the way it was designed.

Camping hard monsters is solved, because if they're at the end of a dungeon that can't be marked then players will have to beat the whole thing every time they want to see if its there or not. This should discourage camping pretty well.

I suppose that not being able to mark hard areas would also help solve the problem of low-level players progressing through areas via the port-walk-mark-die-repeat process. Not being able to mark still seems like a hack but it is tying up some of these problems pretty well...

Unfortunately this doesn't solve all the problems. Timed delivery quests could still be gamed. If the delivery quest was randomized in some way (deliver from 1 city to one of 5 locations spread out in the world, for example) most people probably wouldn't bother trying to mark all of them and would just do the quest like we intended.

All of this I believe is right, or along these lines Karl. I think what people are misunderstanding is that Evidyon needs to appeal to a wider audience to be successful. Xenimus had elements. Xenimus had a low server population. Evidyon won't. Evidyon will be more widespread and appealing to each and all, and it is getting this balance which Karl is talking about guys.

marzuku wrote:Port Jumping
Once again Karl, i rarely ever met any one who would give me their own grinding mark, why? because i was a PK'r and nobody wants to get pk'd just because they gave away their secret grinding spot, but if i wanted to ever have a grinding spot people would also show me the way instead of porting.

Port jumping was one of the coolest things XEN had before Ej secured it because of whine from people getting pk'd.

Why cool?: You enter a portal at own risk, this could be a port pk, you could find a secret hideout, get lost, get pk'd manually by some one on the other side, or pk them for letting the portal stay open.
Why not cool?: Some people are afraid of pk'rs and seem to be whiny b!tches. A Portal is a Portal it is logical that any one could use such a thing? its like a doorway, if i could enter karl and rabit could probably aswell? until i closed it of course, get it?

Karl, can you make it so that ANY character entering a portal can not use the marking ability for 10minutes?, I think this is adequate time to wander around the map alot more before being able to leisurely create marks around the ever developing world.

Rabit561 wrote:The so called "port-mark-die-repeat" idea sounds like complete crockshit. Cause that's not a game problem, thats a personal problem.. XD

This is a game problem. Most people don't see it this way because it is at their "Conveinience" to do these things. Forgetting that this is a developing world which needs to be "explored". Why do you think EJ gave up on Xenimus?, Boredom?, found it pointless for new content?, lack of enthusiasm to the world?...YES all of those are right, and why you ask? because everything EJ designed and implemented in content to the map was "out-dated" in hours, not days weeks or months.

Just remember Karl is on your side and trying to balance this to fit both sides of the gaming communities. For people who liked xenimus as it was, and for people who will be new coming to the game (which hate xenimus for what it was). Now do you see the point?

Richard

One thing that might be used as part of the system:
When a player enters his own portal, it closes quickly behind him.

Joe M. wrote:One thing that might be used as part of the system:
When a player enters his own portal, it closes quickly behind him.

i rather liked the stop action button for attacks & portals, why make portals at all if nobody will get to f*cking enter? we might aswell have 24/7 hour portals at each town then and just have recall for ourselves, and we could go on playing alone without having to interact with any other players who would warn you about pk'rs etc because nobody would find any1.

i believe we just killed port pk, marking nice spots, and interactive grinding.

You made this game for players whom are to use their brains did you not? what if a player only plays for PK and to prove his abilities, would it not then be against his gameplay to delete such a funny and easy pk function as port pk or port jumping?

Cant you just have normal old XEN ports with stop action button to close it, i never had the problem of people jumping into my portals because i was cautious,
Dont you remember always grinding with a finger close to the ESC button incase a pkr was to come? or that you pressed stop action button like hell when you ported somewhere from town? these were all great things about XEN, i believe we want to keep the things that made xen great and remove stuff which ruined it.

AND if a dude is f*cking stupid enough to open a portal in the middle of town infront of 20 high lvls then i say let the f*cking imbecile have it!
i cant believe what im hearing, the game is made to be risky, port jumping was one of the most important risks EJ implemented.
Port jumping and sharing marks also allowed interacting with other players about grinding, marks or maybe warning eachother about who was at RED SQ Grinding.

0-9 marks, portals which can be closed at own will, and they are 100% open for any one who wishes to enter at own risk.

Dont ruin Evidyon because some of you couldnt stand hardcore, starting to lose confidence in some aspects of the game.

marzuku wrote:

Joe M. wrote:One thing that might be used as part of the system:
When a player enters his own portal, it closes quickly behind him.

i rather liked the stop action button for attacks & portals, why make portals at all if nobody will get to f*cking enter? we might aswell have 24/7 hour portals at each town then and just have recall for ourselves, and we could go on playing alone without having to interact with any other players who would warn you about pk'rs etc because nobody would find any1.

i believe we just killed port pk, marking nice spots, and interactive grinding.

You made this game for players whom are to use their brains did you not? what if a player only plays for PK and to prove his abilities, would it not then be against his gameplay to delete such a funny and easy pk function as port pk or port jumping?

Cant you just have normal old XEN ports with stop action button to close it, i never had the problem of people jumping into my portals because i was cautious,
Dont you remember always grinding with a finger close to the ESC button incase a pkr was to come? or that you pressed stop action button like hell when you ported somewhere from town? these were all great things about XEN, i believe we want to keep the things that made xen great and remove stuff which ruined it.

AND if a dude is f*cking stupid enough to open a portal in the middle of town infront of 20 high lvls then i say let the f*cking imbecile have it!
i cant believe what im hearing, the game is made to be risky, port jumping was one of the most important risks EJ implemented.
Port jumping and sharing marks also allowed interacting with other players about grinding, marks or maybe warning eachother about who was at RED SQ Grinding.

0-9 marks, portals which can be closed at own will, and they are 100% open for any one who wishes to enter at own risk.

Dont ruin Evidyon because some of you couldnt stand hardcore, starting to lose confidence in some aspects of the game.

Can i just say, how many games give open portals around the whole of their entire map?

None.

Ithink if you read Karls posts, being alot more understanding you will fully realise why no other games allow this freedom. And you will also see how Karl is trying to juggle two sides (very well I must say).

Let's be a bit more optimistic here, we are alpha testing, not beta and beyond here.

Remember that.

Richard. UK wrote:Can i just say, how many games give open portals around the whole of their entire map?

None.

Ithink if you read Karls posts, being alot more understanding you will fully realise why no other games allow this freedom. And you will also see how Karl is trying to juggle two sides (very well I must say).

nr.1 you are totally wrong, you played wow and discussed about it like hell, on wow you get to portal to each and every city by using Mage portals, you are also allowed to summon people to dungeons etc, this is a game which has 10 million players worldwide i think, and is the greatest game created according to critics which is what we are aiming for arnt we?
Besides Evidyon portals wont be marked for us, players will have to explore to be able to mark good spots you wont just be handed them unless you have some one whos high lvl and a friend of yours, by that time the game will already be fully explored.

2. WoW made it so that the game was simple to learn but hard to master. | We've got this to a degree
3. Popular old xen/WoW had portals/summoning/extremely fast mounts | We wont have mounts, wont have summoning and lets hope some one doesnt f*ck up "Portals"

If the map is as big as karl says it is, then people will have to slowly explore the game and mark as they progress, but you cant create a game that is going to still be explorable at max levels, to some degree people will learn the map anyway and then they will quit cause it takes to long to travel where you need to go.

POINT: if the map is as big as karl says it is, then people cant simply just mark whithin a certain grinding spot, they will have to mark between several nice grind spots and travel, by this point people will still be exploring the best possible solutions for marks etc, and if you have enough important towns most the marks will go to something equivalent of a t7/t7ds which has portals to other towns.

i still hate the whole idea of recall, it is a means of escaping with no trace which will make every one a warlock.

Marz, you need to chill. You're being absurd.

We have not yet had a full discussion of portaling in a dev meeting. Right now all we're doing is thinking of problems and potential solutions (whether whole or partial). Nothing has been decided yet, and when we do sit down to make decisions, we will be reading through this thread to make sure we're accounting for all the concerns here expressed. And since this is alpha any decision we do make can be easily changed if there's a good reason to change it.

Marz, what Richard advocates isn't asskissing, but simple good faith. Such good faith is a necessary prerequisite for any serious discussion, of games or otherwise. If you can't grant us that much, then we can't really have these public discussions of design questions.

Joe M. wrote:Marz, you need to chill. You're being absurd.

How am i being absurd? this game was about recreating what was good about xen before ej ruined it and adding some more cool stuff, and here comes richard asking for suggestions which are part of what ruined XEN, i should be ten times more enraged by this but im holding back.

this will be my last suggestion ever from now on, ill be silently watching the game progress, if the game doesnt fail then great, but i see certain updated xen aspects being added the same aspects which ruined a great game.

KkThxBb

Marz, it seems absurd to me to blow up over ideas that get thrown out in a discussion of possible ways to make portaling work. It seems particularly absurd to get worked up to the point of insulting others. What was a pretty thoughtful and helpful discussion up till you responded to my little thought up there was derailed by a temper-tantrum. That's absurd.

I'll go through and give my thoughts on ports themselves later tonight or tomorrow. There is some good stuff in this thread that I'll be thinking about, and maybe if I can offer a comprehensive treatment of the issue we can talk about these things without such misunderstandings and nonsense disagreements.

all this port stuff is rubbish

Dont add timers to spells cause that would be poo.

And if somebody does find a new area on the map everyone will find it eventually anyway seems like a waste of time adding all restrictions

Your all just giving out ideas from over games.

Your all just giving out ideas from o[th]er games.

Nothing wrong with that. Got to look at what everybody else does and see if it works or not, and why it succeeds or fails.

marzuku wrote:nr.1 you are totally wrong, you played wow and discussed about it like hell, on wow you get to portal to each and every city by using Mage portals, you are also allowed to summon people to dungeons etc,

That has restrictions on the portalling around the ENTIRE (ANYWHERE) map does it not?, first restriction is Class (warlock), second restriction is Spell, third restriction is Dungeon summoning stone/level requirement, fourth is that you couldn't portal to any given floor space on the map?, fifth is no you couldn't portal to every city in fact it was limited. You could fly between a select few and catch what is reffered to as a change point (where you need a boat to a new continent etc.)

marzuku wrote:Besides Evidyon portals wont be marked for us, players will have to explore to be able to mark good spots you wont just be handed them unless you have some one whos high lvl and a friend of yours, by that time the game will already be fully explored.

I think you fail to see how quickly each and every "NEW" player could get to do and see the exact same things as an "OLD" player. With openly porting around I agree with Karl that it allows every "NEW" player to not really achieve anything if they make friends or have friends already playing. Where's the fun in that? for a long-term developing game? (guess you wouldn't have a clue would you lol....

marzuku wrote:2. WoW made it so that the game was simple to learn but hard to master. | We've got this to a degree
3. Popular old xen/WoW had portals/summoning/extremely fast mounts | We wont have mounts, wont have summoning and lets hope some one doesnt f*ck up "Portals"

This more of a rant? than constructive input to alpha?, your guess is as good as mine. Either way both points were nothing of interest and really aren't 100% accurate and definitely no where near gospel truth.

marzuku wrote:If the map is as big as karl says it is, then people will have to slowly explore the game and mark as they progress, but you cant create a game that is going to still be explorable at max levels, to some degree people will learn the map anyway and then they will quit cause it takes to long to travel where you need to go.

This is where I think your deluded lol. I mean, hang on a minute ago you were all World of Warcraft???, Take your statement about "you cant create a game that is going to still be explorable at max levels", isn't this what all successful games avoid?....Well with World of Warcraft being your favourite buddy comparison right now, maybe you'll understand more clearly when I mention RAIDS and DUNGEONS and NEW CONTENT (EXPANSIONS)....enough said on that.

marzuku wrote:i still hate the whole idea of recall, it is a means of escaping with no trace which will make every one a warlock.

well, in fairness i'm not huge fan of instantly disappearing from your location to another. BUT bearing in mind this is ALPHA these thing should be discussed with imagination (which you seem to find hard to do) and not shot down in sequence. That said, I do think that recall needs to be self only whether it is instant or through a portal. But in my personal preference I would rather see people in a fantasy world casting self open portals other than disappearing super quickly off screen. And maybe if someone stands in a players recall portal a message saying (or similar) "You are not free to enter, Not Welcome to Pizza Planet" sorry had to get a Toy Story themed joke in there haha

Thanks all

Joe M. wrote:

Your all just giving out ideas from o[th]er games.

Nothing wrong with that. Got to look at what everybody else does and see if it works or not, and why it succeeds or fails.

Oh and I agree with you totally Joe,

For everyone else its called "MARKET RESEARCH".
Wikipedia it for all of those who don't have much clue.
i'll even give you a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research


Sorry i'm feeling a bit let down and low about the way things are shaping people at the moment, no dis-credit to Karl or you Joe. its just getting way too petty in some respects hence my tone of post..


SORRY AND EDIT: Yes and just to add, this is what every game, business, company does. (for those who want to start blabbering about spending too much time doing research, and those who want to compare alot of the time to every other game out there) ***Just a message to get into your brains clearer***

Personally i like the game as it is, just get rid of the delay on spells, add some moe spells and some land and itl be fine.

Did I miss something? LoL this is an XEN remake people, why are you trying to make it like WoW?

The whole reason this project is here is to recreate the old Xen-Game-Play and from what I'm reading even Richard want's to get rid of the portal system that was created around Xenimus (which was A great system)

and there was NO problem with it, absolutely nothing. So why is there arguing about what kind of portal system we should use when Xenimus's itself was the bomb.

I just can't get it through my mind how people would even imagine that anything different would feel like Old Xenimus..

Rabit561 wrote:from what I'm reading even Richard want's to get rid of the portal system that was created around Xenimus (which was A great system)

Far from it you are wrong. My input stems from FEEEDBACK that KARL asked US for based on CRITERIA and SCENARIOS PUT FORWARD. I never once said scrap it you obviously DIDNT read properly. I think i'm one of the only people here who have made CONSTRUCTIVE feedback as an ALPHA TESTER. Other than that every other argument or opinion is BE XENIMUS, XENIMUS, NEEDS TO BE XENIMUS. when you quite blatently are missing the point that Karl brought up to us in the first place.

XpLiCiT wrote:Personally i like the game as it is, just get rid of the delay on spells, add some moe spells and some land and itl be fine.

I agree the game is great and things are working perfectly without many bugs from first implementations! (how do you do it Karl ), all that is needed is content, items, sexy looking map and effects! which is in the devleopement and cant wait!!

Oh and another thing masses of more player, i'm sure things will get alot better as more players join through beta as it gives more things to do and people to talk to etc

Richard. UK wrote:

Rabit561 wrote:from what I'm reading even Richard want's to get rid of the portal system that was created around Xenimus (which was A great system)

Far from it you are wrong. It stems from FEEEDBACK that KARL asked US for based on CRITERIA and SCENARIOS PUT FORWARD. I never once said scrap it you obviously DIDNT read properly. I think i'm one of the only people here who have made CONSTRUCTIVE feedback as an ALPHA TESTER. Other than that every other argument or opinion is BE XENIMUS, XENIMUS, NEEDS TO BE XENIMUS. when you quite blatently are missing the point that Karl brought up to us in the first place.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL!!!!

lol.. And what I am saying if you ever get another idea.. Forget about it.