a thought on proffesions and drops

[ziggman]

i read some where you mentioned having proffessions.
i for one think this is a really good idea. having animals/monsters drop the ingredients for now, i dont know how hard it is to add mining where there is a place to mine materials,
having things such as
mining,
blacksmithing,
Skinning,
leatherworking,
Talioring,
herbalism,
Alchemy.

players should be able to craft very nice gear.
maybe Alchemy could create an extreemely expensive elixer that makes an item non-drop non-trade.

if crafting is implemented the drop rate for gear should be signicantly reduced. so players have to craft to make gear. in xen now everything drops some gear, change that gear into animal parts, monster trinkets, bones, ect.. and also having crafting in the game allows players to not get bored with leveling and pvp.

[Joe M.]

I always thought that craft systems were one of the best features to include in a game. Allow players to interact and make things more interesting. For the two weeks (or so) that I played WoW, I tried my hand at its craft system and found it fun and easy to access. Unfortunately, the very formulaic approach made it ultimately less interesting: all the websites specifying exactly how to get any desired result. I suppose that's going to happen to any feature of any game with the net these days, but I wonder if there would be a way to maintain some of the element of surprise--the unpredictable nature of Xen's prop shrine comes to mind. A fine line to walk in any case.

Any thoughts?

[Karl G.]

Xen's prop system is a great place to start for a craft system in Volucris--which I think would be a great feature! There are many different ways to approach the issue, so let's name a few just to get ideas going:

Failure Rates - I always thought the idea of trying to make a piece of armor and failing completely, yet somehow losing the ingredients was a bit dumb...but what about randomizing the effectiveness of a particular skill a bit? I mean, anyone with enough time and resources can create a perfect piece of armor; so, to simulate this in Volucris, perhaps someone could continually try to re-work (maybe "improve") an item (armor, weapon, etc...) and its stats will randomly increase or decrease slightly after a certain period.

Categories of Crafting - We could make different professions, as Zigg mentioned, work in different ways. Potion-brewing (alchemy?) for example is much different from blacksmithing, so it would be cool if it were possible to differentiate these in the way the skills worked. Imagine buying a "brewing cauldron" and, when using the item, a screen came up that let you actually drag-and-drop items into some swirling liquid. When you think you've made something, use special clear crystals to determine its properties. For example, one crystal when dipped in the fluid would turn black if it is poisonous. Another would turn purple if it restored magic, and still another would become milky-white if the potion transferred some special ability.



Ideas? I really like where this can go!

[ziggman]

the idea with the brewing cauldron almost sounds like a side game lol, perhaps there would a master Alchemest who can "rate" any potion he comes across...? meaning you would make some wierd potion and give it to the master Alchemist and he would tell you the properites are,

for armors and what not, there should be a set pattern on how to make it, same with all proffessions. regular patterns should be followed.

Failure rate is good, something like a 25% chance it fails and IF it fails theres 25% you lose 25% of the itmes you used?

asfar as improving existing armor that would be for a proping a shine? or making leather/steel patches that you can addtoo it to improve armor ratings. or have alchemy use potions on a leather to make it regen hp or mp....

that last little thought made me realize if an Alchemest can add mp/hp and the blacksmith OR leatherworker OR tailor can add the extra armor and reflectiveness to thier items there is no need for a propshine system like xeinmus has. same with weapons the weapon crafter can add damage by improving the weapon the Alchemest can add speed by using an agility elixer on it and mp/hp by using health and mana elixers ect.

as you add properties it becomes Higher chance of failure, IF the item enhancing fails you lose the item your using to enhance it. so you lose the elixer, cloth patch, leather patch, mail patch, plate patch, ect.
1=10% failure
2=20% failure
3=30% failure
4=40% failure
5=50% failure
6=60% failure
7=70% failure
8=80% failure
9=90% failure
10=100% failure

This type of system would allow for items to be specialy proped for a specific class two items might be the same only if somone makes them that way.

[Joe M.]

I don't think the idea of a prop shrine should be dropped. If some of its function gets taken over by craft skills, why not just change the proportions on the prop shrine? High-risk high-payoff as opposed to the low-risk low-payoff of the craft skills--something like that.

[Karl G.]

As quirky as it was, I always thought the prop shrine was a great idea on EJ's part--what better way to have people get rid of boatloads of expensive items for potentially nothing in return are there? It's like gambling, and let's face it, that can be exciting.

I can tell that this idea is going to take a lot of fine-tuning to get right, since there are so many options. Let's start by outlining the basic things that craftspeople could be able to do via skills: (feel free to add to this list!)

brew potions
improve armor/shield/helmet defense value
improve weapon attack power
reduce item weight (increases attack speed?) <- I'm not quite sure here
repair item <- if we have items degrade...which I don't think we should

[ziggman]

i was thinking basic skills

Alchemy:
Brewing Potions
Healing, Mana, Posion, Holy water ect
**Create Regen 1 MP Elixer
**Create Regen 1 HP Elixer
Alchemy weapon master:
Weapn related potions
Red potions, (Battle potion?), white potions
**CANNOT make +1mp or +1hp regen
**Create +5% steal HP to weapon
**Create +5% steal MP to weapon
**Create +1 regen MP to weapon
**Create +1 regen HP to weapon
Herbalism
The Ability to gather rare plants and herbs
Tailor
Create Cloth Items
Gloves, Boots, Pants, Armors, Helms, Ect.
**Create + 5 armor Cloth Patch
**Create + 10% reflective Cloth Patch
Skinning
The Ability to get prized leather/hides from beasts
Leather working:
Create Leather items
Gloves, boots, pants, armor, helms, ect
**Create + 7 armor leather patch
**Create +10% reflective leather patch
Mining
The Ability to get Prized Ore from the Earth
Armor Smith
Create Plate armors
Gloves, Boots, Pants, Armor, Helm, Ect
**Create + 10 Armor plate Patch
**Create +10 % reflective plate Patch
Weapon Smith
cannot create plate armor
Create weapons
Daggers, swords, axes, hammers, ect
**Create Lighten weapon + 10% attack speed
**Create Finely sharpend + 10% damage
any other props can be made from a prop shrine.

such as

Melee WEAPON:
+5% All Magic Damage
+10% Melee damage
+10% Attack speed
+10% ice damage
+10% fire damage
+30 points damage
+2 skill
+5% steal Hp
+5% steal Mp

Cast weapon
+10% all magic Damage
+10% spirit damage
+10% Shadow damage
+10% ice damage
+10% fire damage
+10% energy damage
+1 mp regen
+5% cast speed
+2 skill

armor+pants
+2% all magic pro
+2% all magic pro
+1 Regen HP
+1 Regen HP
+1 Regen MP
+1 Regen MP
+7 Armor Bounus
+7 Armor Bounus
+10% reflective

shield
+1% all Magic Pro
+1% all magic pro
+1% all magic damage
+1% all magic damage
+1regen mp
+1regen hp
+3 armor
+3 armor
+7% reflective

Gloves
+5 Melee damage
+5 Melee damage
+1% all Magic Damage
+1% all Magic Damage
+1 skill
+5% cast speed
+5% attack Speed
+5% rage
+3 armor

Helm
+1 regen hp
+1 regen hp
+1 Regen Mp
+1 regen MP
+1% all Magic damage
+1% all Magic Protection
+night vision
+5% magic bounus
+5% health bounus

Boots
+3% attack speed
+3% attack SPeed
+3% cast speed
+1 regen mp
+1 regen Hp
+2% Magic Bounus
+2% health Bounus
+1% all magic dmg
+1% all magic bounus

im no FOR gettin rid of the prop shrine,
it is still very much a gamble, as you go up in the props you go up in the failure rate at 5 props there is a 50% failure rate! and if it fails you lose your elixer or patch!! and patches/elixers should be level specific as the gear your trying to add it too is higher level you would need a higher level patch.

you can get a maximum of nine props a 10th prop is impossible but a nineth prop is possible but has a 90% failure rate! so its very rare and gear with a nineth prop would be extreemely expensive.

EXAMPLE:

you find sword of blood... you take it to prop shrine drop what ever u have to drop
you get 5props bam!
+10% fire damage
+30 points damage
+10% damage
+2 skill
+5% steal hp
ok so you go the cons shop (or find weapon alchemest)
and get a steal mp elixer
you try it and you have 60% chance it fails!
luck you it worked!
now you have been working your Weapon smith skills
so you create a weapon lightening kit
and you have a 70% chance it fails
and it does.
so you mine the necessary items to create another weapon kit
you try again but it fails again.
Again you mine and gather necessary items
this time it works.
you decide to try to add +10% damage by making a sharpen kit
you try it out, you would only have a 20% chance it would work.
IT WORKS you lucky boy!

so now your weapon has
+20% Damage
+10% attack Speed
+10% Fire damage
+30 points damage
+2 skill
+5% steal hp
+5% steal mp


Anohter example
you find a mystic leather WOO HOO 2nd one ingame wow!
ok your not rich and dont know whos is so you take it to prop shrine drop all the proping items you can think of but only get 3 props!
+7 armor
+10% reflective
+1 regen Hp
DAMN! sucks.
so you find a alchemesit and pay him everything u got for 3 mp regen elixers the 1st one u use fails right away (terrible luck)
lucky for you the other two work fine
so now ur leather is
+7 armor
+10% reflective
+2mp
+1hp

early on you decided leather working was the way to go covers the most armors

you create a leather patch and it fails

you kill 100's of beasts to find enuf leather to make another level 20 armor patch and this one works you added +7 armor
you kill many more and have enuf to create 2 more armor patches
unfortunatley they both failed
you sadly sell your
Mystic leather
+14 armor
+10% reflective
+1 hp
+2 mp
for a good lightning leather.


of course using patches and elixers would be a fail safe but the rewards of having DOUBLE props by using a prop shrine would far outweigh the the use of patches and elixers.

[daekighn]

Dont mean to bash or anything... why u taking runescape into a whole diff game? everything uve came up with is from runescape. Sorry to say that. I do like the ideas besides Herblore.. thats a waste of time.

[ziggman]

Wtf!? Runescape? ROFL i played that game a total of 6 hours and it was so dumb. i have come up with thoes ideas myself. i do take offence to these allegations that my ideas are copied from any other game. the baisc idea of proffessions is on alot of games but i did not copy any application of thoes proffessions!

If you dont like my idea, you dont like it, thats fine
there is no reason to say i stole my ideas from ANYWHERE because they are not stolen


as for herbalism skills do you really think any clumsy fool should be able to gather fine delicate herbs needed for the best potions.

[thadiusofx3]

professions have been around way longer than runescape

[daekighn]

Ahh , i saw that herbs are for potions. Im sorry(only 13 yrs old) i didn't exactly know what that was. Because on runescape you can only get the herbs and stuff and only eat/cook/sell them. Sorry to offend you zigg.

[ziggman]

dont worry about it i just wanted to be clear that i didnt steal my ideas from any other game.

[ziggman]

Karl, Thadius? your thoughts? good or bad?

[Karl G.]

I like the general idea, but I think we can be more creative with the system. The more unpredictable it is, the more fun people will have trying to figure out the most useful professions and professional skills--that's why I think items shouldn't have such specific bonuses mapped to certain skills like you have. I think it's more realistic (and fun) to have a large range of potential item attributes...

[ziggman]

how many more different props per item are you suggesting? i can only think of so many lol.

i wouldnt want it so unpredictable that you would spend a large sum of money and get your item full proped with a bunch of weird usless props. a variety is great! dont get me wrong. but it shouldnt be such a variety that you cannot put a price on anything.



i have provided up to
17 props for melee weapons
15 props for cast weapons
13 props for cloth armor/leggings
13 props for leather armor/leggings
13 props for plate armor/leggings
09 props for helms
09 props for boots
09 props for gloves

YOU CAN ONLY GET 9 FOR EACH ITEM

[kuba]

Let's not mistake using old ideas and copying these ideas. Professions could have their place in PV but what you're suggesting is a copycat system of WoW. Aside from not being original, it doesn't seem applicable to PV. The two are entirely different beasts and therefore ideas should be approached differently. PV is to focus on being a fast-paced, point-and-click action RPG.

Remember it was EJ's creative ingenuity (or sheer dumbluck, never quite figured that one out) that made Xenimus what it was. Yes, he took ideas from past games such as Ultima, EQ, and Diablo, but he made them his own. Xenimus was very much an original piece of work. Whether he got lucky or it was his plan all along, he found a winning formula with creating an atmosphere of a dog-eat-dog, cut-throat, gaming experience. It's in my opinion we get this part down first and then build upon it, resculpt it, do whatever we wish to make it our own.

With that said, we have a GREAT lead developer that recognizes and understands this much more concretely than EJ (...had to have been dumbluck). For those who were around to hear Karl's ideas for Dark Lantern and Born to Rule you too know the scope of his creativity. I have no doubt whatever he does will be quality and his creativity will show.

** To the Original Poster, I like your idea for a binding elixir. An item that can bind a weapon to a player creates a sense of ownership-- a virtue that works very well in a game like Xen which at its core is about gaining power/property. I don't like the idea of "non-drop non-trade" because the concept is permanent and takes away opportunities for others to capitalize. It's in my opinion that just like a castle could be owned/disowned, so should gear, whether or not it belongs to you. A different approach would be to have the weapon, once binded, enhance the owner/master, but lose whatever ability when held by others (or even cause adverse effects for the new owner).

[ziggman]

How are you suggesting that would change the fast pace ,cut throat, click and go play style that Xenimus has?

its simply a new idea to add props to items. and yes i do play wow and theres where i got the term "Alchemy" but wow is nothing like i have suggested. My system is not a copycat from wow please read my post.

Double props
you can have an Alchemy person add regen to items and then have a armor smith add an armor bounus.

im NOT implying that items should be soulbound i really hate that aspect of WoW. its a large waste of my money on wow to buy new gear. because i may find someting better and there i have wasted money... i cannot do anything with items i have tried on. it sucks bad lol.

[kuba]

That was in regards to your original suggestion for bringing professions into PV-- I haven't read your other suggestion(s) yet.

I'd rather have us come up with our own system that would build off our distinction rather than just adding frills here and there for the sake of having them. Why not base our professions on the fast-paced gameplay like PVP, think assasins and bounty hunters. Or alchemists brewing white potions, locksmith creating keys. These are more suitable when compared to herbalism and mining, it's just my opinion that those two especially don't fit the bill for a game like Xen/PV.

[Sankt Pauli]

Mining is really something which doesn't fit the fast-paced gameplay.

Just having read these ideas though i really like them, proffessions are a cool plan. Maybe to fit the fast-paced way ALL ingredients should be dropped by monsters, you just have to hunt the right area for certain items (caves = monsters drop ores, woods = monsters drop herbal stuff). leather and bodyparts can be taken anywhere.

That way you don't have to hang around at one specific tile for some time to gather stuff.

[ziggman]

i dont have a clear objective as to how thing would/should work im glad to be gettin some feed back,

and yes i know mining and herbalism skills wouldnt fit well with a fast pace game,

Perhaps Sankt is on the right track, i have mentioned his idea before having stuff drop of monsters, rock monsters (or any earth type monster) would drop metals iron, steel, gold, ect,
imps could drop low level herbs and what not Forest monsters could drop higher level herbs. body parts and leather would drop off of any beast animal

i think that is a good idea. yes.

please remember tho one MAJOR draw back (in my mind) to xenimus is the lack of player activitys. As you play you realize the only thing to xen is Grinding for HOURS on end, followed by some pvp, then Grinding grinding grinding. it would be nice once in a while to feel like your doing something other grinding.

[Ratiotile]

There are ways to make herbalism and mining fit into a fast-paced game. For example, you could have the player go through a mine full of daemons to collect rare ore. To make mining skill relevant, you can have it so that the player only has a certain amount of time before the daemon queen or whatever reacts to the invasion of the cave and leads an army to take you out. Players with a high mining skill will recover more ore per pile of rocks and will be able collect more before running out of time and having to retreat. Of course, if a player is high level enough, he wouldn't fear an army of daemons, but at that point the ore in the cave would be worthless to him anyways.


To make leveling more interesting PV will have more quests and quests that actually work. I think it may be time for someone to start up a quest design thread where all quest ideas are to be compiled.

[thadiusofx3]

we should really use a wiki to keep track of quests (quest details, rewards, requirements, npc's who give them, location, etc)


Sample Quest on the wiki


Description
Collect 5 [[Daggers]] from the imps around town.

Quest Giver: [[Enasha]] in [[Semel]]

Quest Reward: 250 [[Experience]], [[Silver Sword]] with random props

Quest Dialogue:
Enasha: "Those imps sure are a pest, kill 5 of them and bring me their daggers as proof and I will reward you kindly"


of course in wiki markup each [[]] links to another page of that name, so we can keep track of all items, npcs, locations, etc through the wiki



http://projectvolucris.wiki-site.com/