Unseen Studios

UPDATED: October 18, 2009

--BUGS--
Also when resurrecting or going off screen and returning characters will appear without their armor and just be showing their base model.
Stated in another thread, that exp has a random range of let's say 50 - 100 or so at level 30. This is when grinding the level 30 mobs.
The level 30 mobs I think do too much damage since there are about 3 - 4 in a room. The mobs I am talking about are the Liches and skeletal mages in the south dungeon after the phantoms. I have almost 800 hp and they do about 200 damage per 1 mob, so when I go into the room and try to attack one to get some life back they almost all kill me. Maybe these mobs are higher in the level 30 range than I actually thought.

Joelshup wrote:-Strength seems to be a pointless stat. I would figure that strength would increase my melee damage, but I have noticed no increase what so ever. The only increase in damage that I get is from new weapons. If strength really did increase my damage by 1 - 2 points that's really quite small and insignificant. Especially when we are talking about casters doing the damage that they do now (sorry to point you guys out).

If strength is supposed to effect meelee, and int (or maybe wis) is supposed to effect mag dmg, my testing hasn't been able to confirm any effect. I might make a few level ten character with vastly different stats just to test, but as far as I can tell, this observation holds true with adepts too.

General Suggestions:
-The south catacomb dungeon shouldn't be geared towards casters only. I feel that you alienated the warrior class with this dungeon. I know I have to go get trans wands from my guild geosid, but what happens if I don't get any 3 - 4 times in a row that's a lot of wasted time trying to get trans wands or even tp scrolls for that matter. Since I feel that this is just a very lengthy and unnecessary process for me to just to get into a dungeon and either A. explore or B. level up I feel that you either should recreate the dungeon to incorporate the warrior class or have a merchant that sells trans wands and tp scrolls so I can just use my gold that just piles up. So I can have the ability to move around the world much easily.

Dungeons that are geared towards different classes creates variety in the game. Granted it sucks in beta, where there is limited availability of hunting areas I think that making it so that every class experiences the same cost of difficulty in every area takes away depth in the game, and probably contributed to the downward trend of xenimus.

-I feel that I should not drop my equipment that I currently have equipped when dieing. I do feel that dropping a random inventory item when you die is just, but not my WHOLE inventory AND half of my equipment that I am using. I would strongly urge you to tweak this system please. I think that when you die none of your equipped items should drop period. This makes it really hard for me to get my equipment if I don't have anything to survive long enough to get back to my origin of death. Also please make it to where we just drop 1 - 2 items in the inventory not all of it. When I was grinding in T2 troll cave I accidentally found the T3 troll cave and got man handled. I dropped ALL OF MY INVENTORY and 1 equipped item, I got very lucky. But please look into reworking this system it would make the game A LOT more enjoyable.

I think that the value of life is one of the core fundamentals of this game. If they go down the same path as xen then there will be a rare and valuable item later down the line that will protect your equipped items. and another that will revive you and give the chance to escape. Taking away any of the death penalties would encourage you to hunt in places your not supposed to, if you are dying too often or having a hard time, then you should either not be hunting there, or should be hunting with another person or group. Maybe even a healer.

I can see where you're coming from and does make some sense to make some dungeons for the most part geared towards a specific class like caster that would make for an exciting and dynamic experience. I think I over reacted about this I would like apologize to the devs when they read this; I actually don't mind destroying my crap to get wands I think I was a little out of line and it really doesn't take as much time as I thought it would.

I also can see where you're coming from on the death penalty. I was just thinking maybe if you keep dying constantly by the same mob of the same or higher level you will start to drop more and more stuff. But say if I accidentally run into a level 30 mob some how it would suck to just die instantly and lose practically all my gear just cause it was a fluke encounter that's what I was trying to aim at.

Joelshup wrote:I can see where you're coming from and does make some sense to make some dungeons for the most part geared towards a specific class like caster that would make for an exciting and dynamic experience. I think I over reacted about this I would like apologize to the devs when they read this; I actually don't mind destroying my crap to get wands I think I was a little out of line and it really doesn't take as much time as I thought it would.

It's a beta, we're supposed to voice our opinions

I also can see where you're coming from on the death penalty. I was just thinking maybe if you keep dying constantly by the same mob of the same or higher level you will start to drop more and more stuff. But say if I accidentally run into a level 30 mob some how it would suck to just die instantly and lose practically all my gear just cause it was a fluke encounter that's what I was trying to aim at.

Yeah, the misplaced monsters is a bit of a problem that I hope gets resolved, but as for running into a random high level monster while exploring, that is part of the risk of exploring, and probably should be calculated when considering your gear while traversing new areas.

Morn wrote:Yeah, the misplaced monsters is a bit of a problem that I hope gets resolved, but as for running into a random high level monster while exploring, that is part of the risk of exploring, and probably should be calculated when considering your gear while traversing new areas.

I usually put on gear that I have extras of when I go exploring and scope out a wide area around what I want to kill - if I can kill them in my less powerful gear, then I can farm them with my more powerful gear

I find that losing everything on death brings about a strong incentive to go get your corpse again - I haven't felt that type of dread/loss in AGES in any game, and to me it is very satisfying when I get my items back (This happened to me a couple of times near the t2/t3 troll border and while getting lost in the caves lol)

~Erich

I have an idea. Why not have each item have a separate chance to drop; rarer items have a lesser chance to drop where as more common items drop often?

So strength doesn't affect melee/ranged damage at all huh? Looks like I made the right decision with a full agility build(36 atm)...then again strength is important for higher hp which means better survivability.

Correction: Last night when I hit level 20, only 1 point of strength gave me 1 hp.

Glorfindelus wrote:I have an idea. Why not have each item have a separate chance to drop; rarer items have a lesser chance to drop where as more common items drop often?

Why not have it so:

dropping one item upon death 50%?
dropping two items upon death 20% chance

and there is no number 3 item dropping, because seriously you cant completly destroy a character once he does 1 mistake.

Saw the level 20 claymore lose all his poo and be totally bummed out, probably considering quitting, then later the server reset and he was happy.

you dont want to make people hate the game instantly, you want to give them a chance to actually fool the game and cheat death.

BTW normal monsters like trolls, crawlers which might not seem bright to a normal human should not be guarding your corpse and should probably walk around when they are done killing you.

Wow! Lots of stuff to respond to here, so I'll try not to ramble. I've read everything, but I'm only writing about stuff I have direct answers to.

Fury is missing it's tooltip.
Wrath is missing it's tooltip.
Fixed.

Fury also seems to have a random buff duration I don't know if this is a bug or not.
Should last 30 seconds.

It's been said before in another post that Fury seems overpowered. I would have to agree in some aspects (thinking of PvP of course) Fury could be quite overpowered. But I would also have to disagree with this suggestion as well. I say Fury's lifesteal percentage could be tone down a percent or 2, but nothing more than this. Fury is really the only ability that even makes the warrior have the chance of leveling up.
Looking at my code, this is definitely true. Right now fury's life steal is set to "10" in the editor. This was supposed to be a %, but I never divided by 100 so you're actually getting 10x life steal. Happy accident?

This has also been said in another post want to bring it in here. Warriors 2h damage is quite crap to be frank.
Fixed.

Strength seems to be a pointless stat.
Thanks to something I stuck in to debug, it was. This has been fixed. Testing with a level 7 warrior wielding a club, 10 str ~ around 10 dmg, 18 str ~ 20-25 dmg, 25 str ~ 40 dmg. Difference should be even more noticeable at higher levels. Same goes for intel--that wasn't working either.

I see that Whirlwind is based on the speed of your weapon. That is great but I think that Whirlwind should be a base speed and not be too fast like when I dual wield weapons I can spin insanely fast or not too slow like when I wield a 2h weapon. I think an equilibrium between both will make it a lot more balanced. It really is more beneficial to dual wield Whirlwind than it is to 1h/shield WW or 2h WW. I would think that it shouldn't matter what you use, Whirlwind should be the same speed. I don't if this was intentional or just a bug or something.
I'll look into this one--the reason I made whirlwind based on the speed of your weapon is so that players who use one weapon type aren't penalized where others get a benefit. Other than speed, there would be no difference between 2h weapons and dual wielding weapons for almost anything, and since figs whirlwind often that's probably not helpful. Try the update that comes out later this afternoon with the str fix and the 2h weapon fix and I suspect this will be less of a problem. Ditto for the whirlwind being weak issue.


The south catacomb dungeon shouldn't be geared towards casters only. I feel that you alienated the warrior class with this dungeon.
I understand. Look around more. I made sure that warriors could go anywhere a mage can in that dungeon--and you'll probably find some places they missed while you're at it.

I think that the XP penalty should not apply when I fall down a crevice trying to leap onto our out of my guild geosid. Frankly I think that this is stupid to get a 5k penalty just because I am not a caster and can't trans my way onto or off of this plateau. I can leap, but even then it's cutting it WAY too close. I would suggest having a bridge of some sort or at least make the land a little bit more close for my leap to be safely on the other side each and every time.

Not being able to trans is a limitation of being a warrior type. Once trans wands become more available I suspect this won't be such an issue. You already don't lose gear when falling down a pit--would you rather lose that than xp? It's one or the other. Otherwise, pits are pointless annoyances rather than dangerous map features.

I feel that I should not drop my equipment that I currently have equipped when dieing ... please look into reworking this system it would make the game A LOT more enjoyable.
Let me first say the way this system works: you drop items based on your alignment. If you don't pk, your alignment goes up and you will drop fewer items if you die. Eventually you'll have a 70% chance of keeping all of your items when you die, and a 30% chance of dropping just one single item. This hasn't been obvious so far since a player's alignment starts out so low for new characters and it takes a few days to increase. I would like to keep the current system since it discourages mass PKing, and allows people to seek revenge on those who do (since the mass pkers will drop lots of items when they die, you're encouraged to hunt them!)

Now, there is something else I have to address: currently, one or more of your items might disappear when you die. I changed the way death drops work and didn't thoroughly test it, so there's a big issue with items disappearing. This makes it look like you're dropping more items than you actually are! I am fixing this right now, and it'll go up with the new update this morning.

The other fix I will implement is to raise the default alignment of new players to a level where they will not drop many items on death.

That's about all the suggestions that I could think of I might have more later. Thank you for your time in reading this. This thread will keep being update throughout the beta.

Thanks for providing your comments in the way you have. Making them concise and grammatically correct is a good way to encourage me to read them.

Karl G. wrote: Fury is missing it's tooltip.
Wrath is missing it's tooltip.
Fixed.

Thank you, I don't know if these 2 fixes here are implemented yet, if they are I still don't see the tooltips for either spell.

Karl G. wrote: Fury also seems to have a random buff duration I don't know if this is a bug or not.
Should last 30 seconds.

It was quite wierd when I would use this spell because it seemed to be on there for a good couple minutes and at other times just for about 30 seconds or so. It may be, that I am just crazy and it has been 30 seconds this whole time and just wasn't noticing.

Karl G. wrote: It's been said before in another post that Fury seems overpowered. I would have to agree in some aspects (thinking of PvP of course) Fury could be quite overpowered. But I would also have to disagree with this suggestion as well. I say Fury's lifesteal percentage could be tone down a percent or 2, but nothing more than this. Fury is really the only ability that even makes the warrior have the chance of leveling up.
Looking at my code, this is definitely true. Right now fury's life steal is set to "10" in the editor. This was supposed to be a %, but I never divided by 100 so you're actually getting 10x life steal. Happy accident?

Ah ok, well thanks for the happy accident! If Fury's life steal % is going to be toned down now, will you make it proc off Whirlwind?

Karl G. wrote: This has also been said in another post want to bring it in here. Warriors 2h damage is quite crap to be frank.
Fixed.

Thank you, I have tested this myself just minutes ago, the melee damage is where it needs to be. Thank you for changing this I now feel that my 2h has a purpose to be used again!

Karl G. wrote: Strength seems to be a pointless stat.
Thanks to something I stuck in to debug, it was. This has been fixed. Testing with a level 7 warrior wielding a club, 10 str ~ around 10 dmg, 18 str ~ 20-25 dmg, 25 str ~ 40 dmg. Difference should be even more noticeable at higher levels. Same goes for intel--that wasn't working either.

Again thank you this was really needed. I feel now, that I am now on the same damage range as a caster.

Karl G. wrote: I see that Whirlwind is based on the speed of your weapon. That is great but I think that Whirlwind should be a base speed and not be too fast like when I dual wield weapons I can spin insanely fast or not too slow like when I wield a 2h weapon. I think an equilibrium between both will make it a lot more balanced. It really is more beneficial to dual wield Whirlwind than it is to 1h/shield WW or 2h WW. I would think that it shouldn't matter what you use, Whirlwind should be the same speed. I don't if this was intentional or just a bug or something.
I'll look into this one--the reason I made whirlwind based on the speed of your weapon is so that players who use one weapon type aren't penalized where others get a benefit. Other than speed, there would be no difference between 2h weapons and dual wielding weapons for almost anything, and since figs whirlwind often that's probably not helpful. Try the update that comes out later this afternoon with the str fix and the 2h weapon fix and I suspect this will be less of a problem. Ditto for the whirlwind being weak issue.

I see what you're talking. Yes I do feel that you shouldn't get penalized because you have a 1h/shield. I have tried Whirlwind with the strength/2h update the damage is way better.

Karl G. wrote: The south catacomb dungeon shouldn't be geared towards casters only. I feel that you alienated the warrior class with this dungeon.
I understand. Look around more. I made sure that warriors could go anywhere a mage can in that dungeon--and you'll probably find some places they missed while you're at it.

I have looked around and beat the crap out of that dungeon countless times. I think I may have gotten a little mad at first that I couldn't do anything in there because I had to make trans wands. I don't really mind making trans wands anymore! I keep looking and there seems to be no further levels in this dungeon after you go through the teleport is this correct?

Karl G. wrote: I think that the XP penalty should not apply when I fall down a crevice trying to leap onto our out of my guild geosid. Frankly I think that this is stupid to get a 5k penalty just because I am not a caster and can't trans my way onto or off of this plateau. I can leap, but even then it's cutting it WAY too close. I would suggest having a bridge of some sort or at least make the land a little bit more close for my leap to be safely on the other side each and every time.
Not being able to trans is a limitation of being a warrior type. Once trans wands become more available I suspect this won't be such an issue. You already don't lose gear when falling down a pit--would you rather lose that than xp? It's one or the other. Otherwise, pits are pointless annoyances rather than dangerous map features.

Alright I see what your saying. It's not difficult to obtain trans wands really, but it is if you're not the owner of that geosid and the people who do own it aren't really selling there trans wands on the bazaar. But I guess that's the whole point of owning the geosid in the first place. So only a few people can get the items.

Karl G. wrote: I feel that I should not drop my equipment that I currently have equipped when dieing ... please look into reworking this system it would make the game A LOT more enjoyable.
Let me first say the way this system works: you drop items based on your alignment. If you don't pk, your alignment goes up and you will drop fewer items if you die. Eventually you'll have a 70% chance of keeping all of your items when you die, and a 30% chance of dropping just one single item. This hasn't been obvious so far since a player's alignment starts out so low for new characters and it takes a few days to increase. I would like to keep the current system since it discourages mass PKing, and allows people to seek revenge on those who do (since the mass pkers will drop lots of items when they die, you're encouraged to hunt them!)

Now, there is something else I have to address: currently, one or more of your items might disappear when you die. I changed the way death drops work and didn't thoroughly test it, so there's a big issue with items disappearing. This makes it look like you're dropping more items than you actually are! I am fixing this right now, and it'll go up with the new update this morning.

The other fix I will implement is to raise the default alignment of new players to a level where they will not drop many items on death.

Ah ok, that's what was going on.

Karl G. wrote:Thanks for providing your comments in the way you have. Making them concise and grammatically correct is a good way to encourage me to read them.

Thank you, I will keep updating this page constantly with issues that are arising and ones that are already fixed.

While Warriors spells such as fury are overpowered, Hunter spells on the other hand are terrible, its becoming more and more difficult to level as I progress. Tornado only does 50% of weapon damage while the rest do around 10-20%, maybe you can look into buffing Tornado since it seems to be the only aoe that hunters rely on for leveling?

Maybe its because I put too much into agil and not enough strength. Maybe I'm pushing it too far.

Edit: hey Karl, is it possible to have our stat points reset? I would like to see how well a hunter fares with full strength.

There are easy Liches which is what I think you are talking about, and hard liches, which I don't think you've found yet. and that is as far as I've found in s. dung, but I can't even last 2 sec in hard liches so...

I have found these liches and the only reason they can be hard is there quite many of them.

you're probably right, I had to remake, my char sucked

A map. Maybe one not even pre-made, but a map we can put together. Sort of like how in Xenimus we could put down little green circles to show land in the ocean. We'll need it even more once the map is expanded.

Post updated today, October 16.

Glorfindelus wrote:I have an idea. Why not have each item have a separate chance to drop; rarer items have a lesser chance to drop where as more common items drop often?

sounds rediculous..


what made xen nice about drops when you died, is that you didnt drop 3 items ... you dropped 1, and you would always wish it wasnt the best item you had and it would excite you somewhat negative but still excite you, but now that you drop half your items in one death you actually get more depressed than excited.

There should just be 1 item that dropped, and it was random. Just because xen had exciting drops from players doesnt mean you should multiply this part to "stand out", it doesnt mean the exciting part gets bigger, it was already brilliant as it was.

who would corpse camp when you could steal some ones gear in like 2 kills?(corpse camp on xen was avoided by calling for friends and then it became a grand battle)

Suggesting 1 random drop, or else downtime and whine will be uberhigh on forums.

Drops are based on alignment. My alignment isn't even that high and 1 out of 3 times I won't drop anything at all and I only drop 2 items 20 percent of the time. If you are worried about drops, don't play for a few day and make sure to log in once a day and move around a bit. Your rate of dropping will decrease slightly.

Morn wrote:Drops are based on alignment. My alignment isn't even that high and 1 out of 3 times I won't drop anything at all and I only drop 2 items 20 percent of the time. If you are worried about drops, don't play for a few day and make sure to log in once a day and move around a bit. Your rate of dropping will decrease slightly.

well thats kinda the point isnt it, why should players whom strive to be "Good" get all the bonuses? many players on xen like me f.ex only played to kill and obviously we would be incredibly evil and then if that was evidyon id be without gear once some one killed me.

its fair with only 1 item, should not be based on alignment, should no be based on level, should not be based on rarity.

And the only thing that should come with being evil would be apearences, if any of you have played Fable, then you noticed that theres alignment there aswell.
if the player levels on fable by killing the innocent and etc, then he would have red eyes, pale skin, and he would gain some special inscriptions on his skin, and even smoke as if a cinder.

EDIT- Deleted this post because it was a moot point. Dev's aren't going to let Chaos players go without penalties. I personally love this system, and have every intention of creating a chaos based player later in the developement. If the guarantee of dropping 1 or 2 items every time you die rather than 1 item every 3 times you die is too much for you to handle, then you probably drive under 60 mph on a racetrack.