how is pvp working?

[ziggman]

i was reading up on some OLD posts people are saying no bags n stuff...

i agree there should a penalty for dying but comon, no safe guard against losing gear!?

bags should work 90% of time, wearing 2 bags = 99%

exp loss is fairly easy to get back when your lvl 25+,
i would like to see minimal exp loss for people under level 20.

i think there should also be a pvp range, if you level 30 you cant go running around pking lvl 18 characters for mystic gear thats messed up. i dont care what ppl say/think anyone who is lvl 30+ pking noobs is a loser. (aside from vengence)

Can you add a 10 level restriction?
ex: a level 20 Cannot kill a level 10 UNLESS the lvl 10 attacks 1st
upto level 40? like if you manage to get level 55+ you can still pk a lvl 41

[Vitriol]

I understand your concern, but these are the kind of changes that led to xenimus becoming what it is today.

[Karl G.]

The problem with losing less when you die is that you have less investment in your character. The fact that you really CARE about your character and whether or not you die is what makes the game so exciting and fun--think about it, if you have a character that's high level and you lose practically nothing when you die, it gets less and less fun.

[Ratiotile]

In a bagless world what I fear happening is a level 30 frequenting the newbie hunting grounds and collecting their gear to sell. Being mid-high level makes him nigh-invincible, as if he can't outfight someone he can run away or logoff. His HP buffer allows him that much time at least. Newbies do not have this luxury because the pker can trans in and kill them in just 1 or 2 hits not giving them enough time to logoff or run away. In Xenimus I was frustrated enough by pkers that I wrote a fast-logoff script so that I could log off at the press of a button.

Yes, I agree that investment in a character is fun, but not when you don't have a chance to protect it. You should care whether you character dies or not but it only works if it is harder for your character to die. If you care about not dying and someone comes in and kills you in 2 shots its plain frustrating. I would be up for reworking the hp/damage system so that a character 10 levels above can't kill the newbie in 2 hits. I dislike systems that prevent damage to noobs, because it's just plain unrealistic.

[Vitriol]

Except that level 30 is full evil and can only sell his stuff at one place, exactly where the good high levels will wait for him.
Back in old xen the non-pking players formed together in what was called the mafia, it by and large ended the super-pks.
Mass pking will end up being a part of project volucris. You will lose gear, xp, and time. Its an absolutely necessary part of that atmosphere of fear and paranoia we are shooting for. But as in xenimus proper, it all worked out when people started working together.

[Ratiotile]

I forget how the old alignment system worked because I never pked back then, but nowadays it only takes 20 minutes to get back to full good after 2-3 pks. If alignment was harder to get back, then pk-hunting would work better.

[Vitriol]

used to take a LOT longer to gain alignment.

[ziggman]

i can deal with a game with out lsa, but i fear i would not enjoy this game with out bags. some high level comes by and whacks u once... there goes ur mystic leather... thats bs, things like that would piss me off to no end and i would not play.

what about redos? will thoes be added?

[Vitriol]

LSAs and redos will be in the game.
Bags will probably be implemented in some form or another but they will be less useful and very rare.

[ziggman]

used to take a LOT longer to gain alignment.

i remember alignment was easy as hell... get a noob, let mosters pk them, kill the moster, rev the noob, repeat

that always got me outta trouble! FAST

that was only 3 years ago...

[Ratiotile]

Alignment should be harder to gain, so the noob trick shouldn't be allowed. A long term alignment memory is a good idea, something like the betrayal points system - the more points you have, the harder it will be to gain alignment.

[Vitriol]

in early xenimus it took many many hours of hunting to get one notch toward good.

[Ender]

My thoughts on bags:

Although it might seem like having more items drop upon death would encourage player killing, at least in xenimus history the opposite is true. Being individually vulnerable forces players to band together for security, and pk'rs are ruthlessly hunted down. The result is that most player killers lose more (and better) gear than they gain. This discourages most people from pking, and the few who are actually successful become legends (Pooper Scooper, Skotup, WoWThatWasEasy, Overcast, etc.)

In PvE situations, however, I think bags have a positive effect. They encourage people to explore, and to group together to hunt in harder areas. It also reduces the incentive to port pk (although there will always be some of this, even with something like the -enter command)

For the above reasons, I think bags should act differently in PvP and PvE situations. More items should drop in PvP, and less in PvE. (I'd even be cool with something closer to the current bag rules for PvE)

[Blue Tiger]

Howdy all, been awhile since iv posted on anything xenimus related. Game looks like it is comming along and I will for sure try it when it gets out. Hopefully its 100% better then todays xenimus, which isnt even missable, id rather sit and look at a tv turned off than play it. Work on this game is looking awesome for what i have seen. Will be nice to have someone that knows what their doing and how to actually communicate with the players.


most of you people are saying to have it where you drop all or most of your inven and equiped gear. Having it like that would only be fun (maybe) to the people that were actually around to play old xenimus. You are not going to attract completely new players or atleast not for long cus this will happen. They will start out, all will be fun and somehow they finally get a good weapon, they get to use it for 10mins and here comes someone 15 lvls above him and kills him in one attack and out falls every weapon and item that newbie worked weeks for. There goes a customer. Took weeks to get decent stuff and lose it all in 3 seconds. Yea thats fun....

Not going to point anyone out but several people on this board are giving suggestions that will send this game in the same direction as xenimus is now. You want this game to actually grow and attract NEW people, not just the 60 people that play xenimus, and to be honest NEW people that dont know any different arnt going to play a game when they have to start from square one every day probably.

[thadiusofx3]

Let me put it like this:

Having no bags or a reduced bag system (not dropping no gear on death) means that people have to be CAREFUL and it teaches to them be better players.
In xenimus right now, you can just jump into the middle of fights, or attack anyone you want without fear because you won't lose anything.
If there were no bags people would be alot more way of what was going on and put more thought into PvP.

[9sam1]

why all the hating on bags, i think bags and redos etc. where some of the best additions to xenimus. You have no idea how devestating it was for me to lose all my gear back in the day. Rememember i was fooling around on my bros char and got killed and lost all his gear including LA staff, and i cryed lol.


Did you ever take into account

Raids = gone , not gonna happen with a no bag system
Bosses= same thing with raids, not gonna happen
Chest's = rarely people would go fearing they would die and someone would snatch there gear, also people would probobly just sit at the chest waiting for people to come so they can pk em.

and all things like that would be useless, theres no way in hell im going to go after a raid monster, knowing full well that he will kill me and ill drop all my items.

BAGS ARE GOOD, THERE IS NOTHING FUN ABOUT LOSING ALL YOUR GEAR!

Maybe back when the game meant little to us and it wasnt to big of a deal it was ok, but now? I would not play if it meant re gearing every time i die.

[Ender]

If we had bags work like normal in PvE, all that 9sam1 is talking about could still go on fine. But in PVP, bags only make the pking / asshat problem worse. Bags should therefore be less "effective" in PvP situations. (see my previous post for the reasoning)

[Ratiotile]

Thadius, you continually assert that having no bags encourages people to be careful. While I agree that people shouldn't fool around in PvP, all the caution in the world will not help someone who will die in one hit from a pker transing in. I don't think the solution is to "find a secluded spot that gives bad exp where no one can find you". What you are suggesting works better when people do not die so easily. If a bagless system is to succeed, people cannot die in one or two shots.

PK-hunting clans: what can they do when the attack is hit-and-run and the PKer is invisible? Assume he doesn't PK frequently enough to go full evil. Anyone in Xenimus could pull off the perfect crime and there would be no repercussions! In a sense this encourages bad morals as killing goes unpunished.

Okay, now assume we made it harder to die. Now all the noobs have to do to avoid getting PK'ed is to log off. The problem with logging off is that it is unrealistic and robs the victim of playing time. What can we do to solve this problem?

[Vitriol]

I wouldnt worry about raids and things like that. Karl can always make low-risk areas. Like the castles in current xen.

[Ratiotile]

Problem with no-risk zones is that they don't make much sense. How come if I'm standing on this side of the line I don't drop anything?

Let my rephrase what I said before: I think that the 'law' being upheld by PK-hunting clans is a fine idea, just that it may be a bit too easy for PKers to avoid them. If there was a code of ethics supported by most players, raid bosses wouldn't be a problem. Whoever PK'ed at the raid would be dealt with. Magic bags don't help stop PK's. Raids still don't work in Xenimus because highlevels PK everyone else to steal their potions.

[Vitriol]

We are a long way from that anyway.

The simple truth is if you cant lose gear easily then PV will not be old xenimus it will be new xenimus.
I know you dont like the idea of dropping that omni whatever but its necessary to recapture what xen felt like 7 years ago.

[ziggman]

There is HUGE difference in being careful, and being robbed.
having no bags would create and reinforce the 'trust no one attidude xenimus has now' i can see it now. 2-3 people having really good gear... and no one else has anything that is worth having.

Maybe you guys like it so much because you were the one pking noobs?
(im not accusing you, im just asking)

i see no bags doing several things
encourages pking
discourages noobs at the same time
makes rich richer
makes poor poorer

This is not the type of game i was invisioning... having high levels pk for level 15-25gear and I would lose gear 100% of the time, thats BS and i wouldnt play for more than 2-3 days

Dont get me wrong there should be penalty for death, exp loss things like that, but, to lose gear 100% of the time... is VERY steep in cost.

and dont try to tell me people wont be masspking for gear, maybe not at first but they will eventualy.

[Vitriol]

We early players got the piss beat out of us, and yet we still play.

[thadiusofx3]

We don't want it to be so hard to play that every time you run out of town you get killed and lose everything, but on the same token we don't want a carebear game.

Instead of arguing about having bags or no bags, lets find a system that would work out where theres still the chance of losing gear, but not losing everything every time you go out of town.

[Vitriol]

how about losing 2 or 3 random items when you die?